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Old 05-08-2013, 01:34 AM
 
32 posts, read 58,128 times
Reputation: 27

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Hello guys,

I really need some feedback on this matter.

My 15-year old daughter is struggling at her college prep public high school, for the past 2 years she's been having some emotional difficulties while having, ADHD, with executive function and processing problems. She also is said to be on the autism spectrum. She got into a fight at school a few months ago (her "friend" stole her Ipod--which was replaced by the girl's parents, because she did steal it, daughter is a bit passive and too nice).

Before the fight she was already having difficulties in the classroom with organization, attention, and focusing and her grades are suffering although she is capable of doing the work.

I must say that she attends a "better" school in one of the worse urban school districts here in MD, probably the United States.

I have a review meeting coming up soon and the proposal is to send her to a school for kids who are emotionally disturbed. I, however, think she can stay at her current placement and get her IEP modified to provide her more assistance. I visited one such school a few months ago and did not like it at all. It seems to as though she is being pushed out of her current placement and I will not allow them to do so.

First above, most of her teachers are not following her IEP, such as staying in touch with me, breaking down her materials and giving her individualized attention when needed. The school went from 7 courses a day to 6 courses which means the class sizes got larger. Some of her classes have 30 students, some 25 and some 20.

I do agree that she needs a smaller class size but I do not agree with sending her to a school that is much worse than where she is in terms of ALL of the children there with emotional disabilities and because the school system pretty much sucks anyway. I'm really concerned about her being passive and then emulating the behavior of these children, and being down about being sent to a special school.

Any ideas?

I honestly do want to relocate to a better school district but right now my finances won't allow it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,911,191 times
Reputation: 2669
It seems to me that this is an argument about LRE = least restrictive environment. That's where I would focus your IEP research right now.

(5) Least restrictive environment.--
(A) In general.--To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily.

IDEA - Building The Legacy of IDEA 2004,

Questions and Answers on Least Restrictive Environment (LRE) Requirements of the IDEA - Wrightslaw
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:22 AM
 
32 posts, read 58,128 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
It seems to me that this is an argument about LRE = least restrictive environment. That's where I would focus your IEP research right now.

(5) Least restrictive environment.--
(A) In general.--To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily.

IDEA - Building The Legacy of IDEA 2004,

Questions and Answers on Least Restrictive Environment (LRE) Requirements of the IDEA - Wrightslaw
Yes, the focus of the meeting is a MRE. I disagree with their reasoning because she can be given more accommodations in the regular classroom as well as more services at the school to be of assist to her.

Thank so much for the link, I will review it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,359,684 times
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Have you visited the placement the school is proposing, in order to determine whether or not you feel it is an appropriate placement? Private schools geared toward specific needs vary quite greatly. Visiting one doesn't give you much perspective on the the characteristics of another, obviously.

LRE is always key, but sometimes special schools actually are the least restrictive option, if the home district cannot offer what is needed and the other school can. You have to look closely at what benefits are, overall, and if there are services that would not be able to be provided by the public school, the public school may in actually be the more restrictive environment, i.e. if it's holding her back (as it assuredly is if her IEP is not being followed as is legally required). There are specialized schools that provide opportunities that a public district can never provide, and in some regards may be the less restrictive choice. At any rate, I wouldn't ever judge a placement consideration until I'd had the chance to visit and review it and what it offers.

If you feel that her public district IS able to provide more modifications and accommodations than it is claiming to be able to provide, and is not willing to work with you, and you don't feel the proposed environment is appropriate, you can make a case for that.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:20 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 4,424,133 times
Reputation: 1262
While the gist of the upcoming meeting centers around the appropriate environment and placement (it sounds like they want to place her in a non-public special education school, or a public school that serves children with emotional difficulties), a key problem is that the school is not following the IEP. It sounds like you have documented this, and you need to make that known during the meeting.

I don't know which MD school district you reside in, but some school systems place kids based on behavior and IEP coding as opposed to needs. So, certain behavior is going to drive those school systems to immediately push for an emotional disturbance coding on the IEP. Consequently, when placement is considered, the school system will first look to placements that serve ED kids.
Or, that is what will happen if you do not advocate otherwise. Generally, for purposes of LRE, school districts look to placements in their system before choosing to place in a non-public special education school (at public expense).

I suggest you make the school system explain why they are not able to follow the IEP and accommodate your daughter appropriately. It sounds like the problems are executive function-based (because of the ADHD) and socially based (because of what sounds like high-functioning autism). The emotional difficulties could stem from her environment and her frustration with keeping up with the academics in terms of the organization and the demands. Does she have (or need) graphic organizers, OT to help her organize her materials, alteration of homework requirements, extra time for testing, etc.? If none of these things are in place, how can the school say that it has tried and failed? When is the last time she has had a neuropsych eval? Is it time for another?

Because your daughter is in one of the better schools in your area, and because of her emotional difficulties, the school appears to be trying to push her out. You will need to weigh whether that school, with its attitude, is truly the best place for her. At the same time, if she needs to go, I wouldn't let the school system push her into a crappy placement.

IMO, I would ensure that her IEP coding reflects other health impairment (for the ADHD) and possibly autism. I certainly would fight against ED as a primary code, because of what I explained above. I personally wouldn't want ED on there at all, but that's me.

There are non-public schools that educate children with ADHD (their mission is mostly learning disabled, but they take children with ADHD as well to help with the executive functioning). The problem is that the rigor of the academics may not be enough; it depends on your daughter's academic needs. It also depends on the behavior your daughter exhibits, because such schools can't handle a lot of behavior problems, and nothing severe.

I would begin researching all possible non-publics that could be a good placement for your daughter. It depends on which schools the district contracts with for placement. For schools that serve a mainly ED population, it is important to think about the amount of disruption that could occur during the school day, the mix of children with various emotional difficulties, and how that could impact your daughter. Not only in the school, but during the bus ride to and from school.

I understand that you want your daughter to stay where she is, and I would advocate for that. At the same time, I would quietly do some research on other placement options just in case. Good luck.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:39 AM
 
8,076 posts, read 10,017,178 times
Reputation: 22648
Time for you and your child to 'man up.'

Every kid in school has ADD/ADHD/Bi Polar...you name it. It sounds to me lke your child is 'average'. And will produce average results in life.

The teacher can not give you more than they are giving. Think about it...30 minutes extra with your child, plus extra assignements designed for your child, plus the time to correct such, and the first thing you know they are giving you an hour each day. Add to that the time to send you an email with a special update, and mulitple that by 100 plus students...you can quicjkly see the problem.

Your child has to be respsonsible for brining home the assignements, and you need to be responsible to ensure that the child is doing the work. Ther are no magical bullets which are going to resolve this situation.

Does you child have an in school aid? That night be helpful. If this has not happened, i would not consider a special education school before this route is explored.

Simply put, you and your child need to knuckle down and get the work done. You answered your own question right here: "First above, most of her teachers are not following her IEP, such as staying in touch with me, breaking down her materials and giving her individualized attention when needed. The school went from 7 courses a day to 6 courses which means the class sizes got larger. Some of her classes have 30 students, some 25 and some 20." Do the math.....there are just not enough hours in the day for the teacher to give this sort of individualized attention to your, or anyone else's, child. I know several GOOD teachers, and they are routinely doing 15 hours days, plus weekends and vacations, just with a normal workload.

I know you are looking for the silver bullet: It just doesn't exist.

BTW, if your child is on adderol or any of the other meds for treating these supposed disorders, get them off right away. Get structure in their life, get discipline in their life, and make sure they know you unequivically love them.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:12 PM
 
32 posts, read 58,128 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian View Post
While the gist of the upcoming meeting centers around the appropriate environment and placement (it sounds like they want to place her in a non-public special education school, or a public school that serves children with emotional difficulties), a key problem is that the school is not following the IEP. It sounds like you have documented this, and you need to make that known during the meeting.

Yes, that is what they're trying to do, and definitely not following her IEP.

I don't know which MD school district you reside in, but some school systems place kids based on behavior and IEP coding as opposed to needs. So, certain behavior is going to drive those school systems to immediately push for an emotional disturbance coding on the IEP. Consequently, when placement is considered, the school system will first look to placements that serve ED kids.
Or, that is what will happen if you do not advocate otherwise. Generally, for purposes of LRE, school districts look to placements in their system before choosing to place in a non-public special education school (at public expense).

Other than the fight, my daughter has never been in trouble in any of her schooling, from elementary to where she is now. So I'm not understanding the labeling. She's not disruptive at all in the classroom or anywhere else.

I suggest you make the school system explain why they are not able to follow the IEP and accommodate your daughter appropriately. It sounds like the problems are executive function-based (because of the ADHD) and socially based (because of what sounds like high-functioning autism). The emotional difficulties could stem from her environment and her frustration with keeping up with the academics in terms of the organization and the demands. Does she have (or need) graphic organizers, OT to help her organize her materials, alteration of homework requirements, extra time for testing, etc.? If none of these things are in place, how can the school say that it has tried and failed? When is the last time she has had a neuropsych eval? Is it time for another?

You've hit the head on the nail. This is why I'm frustrated. Her IEP states that she gets extra time in classwork and homework materials as well as extra time for testing. There's no OT services (never knew she could get that). She had a psychological eval done back in August of last year. She will have neuropsychological testing done, in a month or two, and I will be paying out of pocket for that because it really need to be done.

Because your daughter is in one of the better schools in your area, and because of her emotional difficulties, the school appears to be trying to push her out. You will need to weigh whether that school, with its attitude, is truly the best place for her. At the same time, if she needs to go, I wouldn't let the school system push her into a crappy placement.

I spoke to the MD Disability Law Center a few months ago and they stated the very same thing. Pushing special ed kids out of the better schools is something they've been doing over the years. But I refuse to have her pushed into such crappy schools.

IMO, I would ensure that her IEP coding reflects other health impairment (for the ADHD) and possibly autism. I certainly would fight against ED as a primary code, because of what I explained above. I personally wouldn't want ED on there at all, but that's me.

There are non-public schools that educate children with ADHD (their mission is mostly learning disabled, but they take children with ADHD as well to help with the executive functioning). The problem is that the rigor of the academics may not be enough; it depends on your daughter's academic needs. It also depends on the behavior your daughter exhibits, because such schools can't handle a lot of behavior problems, and nothing severe.

Right, she exhibits no behavioral problems, as I stated above, the fight she had was over an object that was stolen from her although it still shouldn't have happened.

I would begin researching all possible non-publics that could be a good placement for your daughter. It depends on which schools the district contracts with for placement. For schools that serve a mainly ED population, it is important to think about the amount of disruption that could occur during the school day, the mix of children with various emotional difficulties, and how that could impact your daughter. Not only in the school, but during the bus ride to and from school.

Yes, very, very concerned about that.

I understand that you want your daughter to stay where she is, and I would advocate for that. At the same time, I would quietly do some research on other placement options just in case. Good luck.
Thanks you so much!! You've really helped. I have two advocacy organizations that I've got in touch with.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,018,492 times
Reputation: 51113
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafGirl View Post
Hello guys,

I really need some feedback on this matter.

My 15-year old daughter is struggling at her college prep public high school, for the past 2 years she's been having some emotional difficulties while having, ADHD, with executive function and processing problems. She also is said to be on the autism spectrum. She got into a fight at school a few months ago (her "friend" stole her Ipod--which was replaced by the girl's parents, because she did steal it, daughter is a bit passive and too nice).

Before the fight she was already having difficulties in the classroom with organization, attention, and focusing and her grades are suffering although she is capable of doing the work.

I must say that she attends a "better" school in one of the worse urban school districts here in MD, probably the United States.

I have a review meeting coming up soon and the proposal is to send her to a school for kids who are emotionally disturbed. I, however, think she can stay at her current placement and get her IEP modified to provide her more assistance. I visited one such school a few months ago and did not like it at all. It seems to as though she is being pushed out of her current placement and I will not allow them to do so.

First above, most of her teachers are not following her IEP, such as staying in touch with me, breaking down her materials and giving her individualized attention when needed. The school went from 7 courses a day to 6 courses which means the class sizes got larger. Some of her classes have 30 students, some 25 and some 20.

I do agree that she needs a smaller class size but I do not agree with sending her to a school that is much worse than where she is in terms of ALL of the children there with emotional disabilities and because the school system pretty much sucks anyway. I'm really concerned about her being passive and then emulating the behavior of these children, and being down about being sent to a special school.

Any ideas?

I honestly do want to relocate to a better school district but right now my finances won't allow it.
In most cases the better (more detailed and, of course, accurate)the parents' documentation the better it will go for your child at the IEP review meeting.

If the IEP states "Each Classroom Teacher will send a summary email to the parents once per week" don't just say at the IEP review meeting "They don't do that", come with facts such as during the previous six week period "I have received two weekly emails from her chemistry teacher and history teacher, four weekly emails from her English teacher, ..."

If her IEP states "Mary will be allowed additional time to take exams", state "On May 1, Mary requested more time for her history midterm exam and it was denied, On May 7, Mary was told to turn in her chemistry chapter exam at the end of the period even though she was not finished, ..."

If her IEP states "Mary with 'check in' with the guidance counselor at the end of each school day to review her assigned homework" state "During the previous twenty school days the guidance counselor was in meetings, not in her office or absent on ten of the days that Mary came to meet with her".

Of course Mary will need to have been accurately reporting these things to you each night so that there will be accurate records.

Does she have assistance with an aide or special education teacher part of the day? If so, how much of the time? I would suggest that time be increased before they ever consider moving her placement to a different school.

Perhaps even a few minor changes, such as taking exams in a quiet room rather than in the classroom, or having study hall in a resource room rather than those typical, huge noisy study halls. Are there any classes that are team taught with a special education teacher and a regular education teacher? Many times those classes are deigned to be smaller and even if they aren't a lot smaller there are two teachers (and sometimes an aide, too) rather than just one adult per 25 or 30 kids.

BTW, Coming to the IEP meeting well prepared, with copies of correspondence from the teachers and school, your notes from phone calls, dates, times, in an organized manner can sometimes be very effective. Just seeing a confidant, concerned parent, who knows their rights, walking in with a large three ring binder with easy to find sections can sometimes be enough to "scare" administrators that think you will be a "push over".

Keep us posted.

Last edited by germaine2626; 05-10-2013 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:20 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 4,424,133 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafGirl View Post
Thanks you so much!! You've really helped. I have two advocacy organizations that I've got in touch with.
No problem. You may want to consider hiring an educational consultant to attend the IEP meeting(s) with you and help you advocate.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Seminole County
1 posts, read 1,383 times
Reputation: 11
Default IEP meetings

I know this is late, but getting an advocate may be your best choice. I hope things are on a better track for both you and your daughter.
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