Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How many individuals - adults and children - with Down syndrome have you actually known well, Warren? Your views and opinions do not mesh with my own experiences at all, other than the obvious noting of facial appearance, etc. common with DS.
I have never encountered any mention of increased libido or problems with impulse control being frequently associated with DS, either, although stubbornness and aversion to quick change seem to be rather common traits of DS. I have encountered many adults and teens with DS who are physically affectionate and who like to hug others, included new acquaintances unless they are taught otherwise, but this should not be confused with having "increased libido" but with having a warm personality. Affection and libido are not the same.
Similarly, I have not seen particular issues with impulse control, although as with the general population, no doubt some people with DS are excessively impulsive. Actually, I've known some people with DS who were rather cautious and fond of their routines - they had to be persuaded to try new activities.
Hepatitis is an acquired disease, in everyone - not just people with DS. In other words, you have to be exposed to develop it. I am not aware that people with DS are more prone to develop hepatitis if exposed, so cannot comment, but they are not born with the disease.
It should be noted (again, as was done earlier in this thread) that people with Down syndrome are very much individuals, with a wide range of intellectual ability, talent, interests, health conditions, and personalities, just as is true for the general population. While there are certainly traits which are common in many people with this condition, not every trait will be found in every person with DS.
Many. I worked with them in college. So I have known perhaps 200 - 250 adolescents and young adults. Next...
You're posts indicate that you almost worship people with DS. That is the "cult of disabled children" that I referenced.
If you have a heart for DS children, fine. That's good.
My children would be different people if they had DS. As you know, one of our children is adopted, one is not. My wife was under the age of suggested amniocentesis, when she had her procedure.
Families are different. Some can celebrate a job at a gas station, others can't. And still others should not have children at all.
Many. I worked with them in college. So I have known perhaps 200 - 250 adolescents and young adults. Next...
You're posts indicate that you almost worship people with DS. That is the "cult of disabled children" that I referenced.
If you have a heart for DS children, fine. That's good.
My children would be different people if they had DS. As you know, one of our children is adopted, one is not. My wife was under the age of suggested amniocentesis, when she had her procedure.
Families are different. Some can celebrate a job at a gas station, others can't. And still others should not have children at all.
It's best to know what you are.
I hardly "worship" people with DS. I don't "worship" any people, for that matter, but I DO think that all people - children in particular, since that was the original topic of this thread - deserve a fair shake in life.
My advocacy is for groups and individuals which assist orphaned children, both with and without special needs, internationally, in particular in Eastern Europe, as I have young relatives who joined our family by adoption from that part of the world. Due to a very mild special need, one of these young relatives had been separated from their sibling and sent to a remote orphanage for "the intellectually defective". That's the official term for the place, not mine. Now, like their sibling, my young relative is preparing for college. This teenager is also avidly reading classics of English and American literature and volunteering in a local museum...none of which would have happened without adoption.
There are many, many children like my young relative, whose true capacities are not seen because of their special needs. Most never find adoptive families, and are never reunited with their families of origin.
Yes, I advocate for these children - and for others whose special needs are far more severe- to receive families if at all possible, and if not, to receive better care - warm clothing, adequate and nutritious food, good health care, decent housing, essentially the basics - than is generally the norm in such places. I am baffled as to why you think this equates with "almost worshipping people with DS".
Warren, given that you are an international adoptive father, your views puzzle and sadden me. Surely you are aware of the terrible conditions in the orphanages and institutions of the developing world to which most of those counties' children with special needs are routinely consigned, usually after having been given up by their parents at birth. Advocating not only for those children, but for those who work directly with those children in those countries, and for organizations both here and abroad who support not only reform but adoption of these children, who are only rarely adopted within their countries of birth, does not equate to me "almost worshiping people with DS".
I am glad that your children are without special needs, given your views. As you note, it's certainly best to know "what" you are. I would add that it is also best to know WHO you are, and to know your own capacities, and you appear to do that.
I just ask that you not be so judgmental of others who care about children - with or without special needs. Thank you.
Either things are genetic defects/disorders, or they aren't.
Are you trying to rationalize it's okay to abort some fetuses but not others?
No. I support the parents who make that choice, but I do think some genetic defects are harder on parents than others and I think that parents need information about whatever condition they will be dealing with. They cannot make the choice based on bad information.
I over heard a woman in the line at the store saying "Those children are so special (and she was referencing a downs syndrome baby) and she was saying 'Just think one day we wont have those defective genes " and they will be able to fix that . I was floored and angry and I turned around and told her , who says they are defective ? who says they need to fix that as you put it , then she had the nerve to say "they are not normal " . I asked her what is normal ? who are the normal police ? . I told her I had a down syndrome brother he lived to be 25 yrs old before he started having health problem and I mean bad ones and he unfortunately passed away and we still miss and I don't believe there was a sweet soul on this earth . I told her I think you should spend some time volunteering for something dealing with down syndrome kids I hope she takes my advice and does so . I think it will do a world of good for her . I mean what is it with people and their thinking ? I cannot fathom someone thinking like that . I tend to get angry when stuff like that is said .
Phonelady - we live in a shallow world where the value of human life is next to zilch. Good for you for standing up to the woman with the crass comments. She should not have even said such a thing.
Many people worldwide would love to see medical profession and science be able to solve the problems of genetic diseases wiped out such as, progeria,cerebral palsy, cystic fibrosis and any other disease that makes it difficult for a child to live a good life and will cause their demise at a young age. If it can't be eliminated at least to be able to reduce the level of disability. So for all of us out here who wish for the day that children are born healthy,enjoy life and live long we apologise for offending you, and we are sorry for you who suffer shallowness and lack of tolerance towards those who have these hopes for the future and don't accept that these things can't be fixed,cured,made better. I suggest you stay out of the public arena if you can't get over yourself. And thanks to science and researchers who already through the decades have wiped out killer diseases such as polio,smallpox,diphtheria,tuberculosis due to the fact they cared! Now give them room to find out the genetic flaw in humans that makes for suffering. And before you ask,yes I have been around DS individuals and with proper upbringing and care they function very well all's you have to do is allow them to learn,let them do for themselves, reign them in as you would any other child. The child I am referring to now lived much longer than expected,worked,had friends and would look at his watch when visitors came and wonder when we would leave as he was busy!! God bless him and yes he is missed after all these years.
Last edited by luv my dayton; 01-03-2016 at 10:46 AM..
Dayton - you stated it very well. I don't think anyone would disagree with the hope that someday these things will be eradicated. I think the original poster was upset with the tactless choice of words, and because of her love for her brother made the woman's words seemed so much more crass.
OP, please keep in mind that this woman probably had nothing but good intentions. I made the decision to try to not let something offend me if they had no intention of hurting me.
If we could choose whether or not their children develops in a perfectly healthy manner while in utero, everyone that I would know would want their children to be perfectly healthy. I understand why you're upset which is natural because you have a personal connection with someone who was born with DS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
My son is medication free, not on drugs, no criminal record, is planning any massacre of other individuals, and a lot of parents of "normal" kids can't say that.
So?
Forgive me for being intrusive, but does your son have the mental capacity to abuse drugs or commit crimes?
ETA: Actually, most parents can say the same thing. As most kids don't use drugs, nor do they have a criminal criminal record, and most don't plan massacres.
Untrue. It affects intellectual capacity, growth, facial appearance, the ability to achieve academically and professionally, and renders the individual with the inability to exercise impulse control.
Many have extremely elevated libidos, and can be obnoxious when it comes to sexuality and acting out.
There are a slew of other diagnoses that go along with DS - from Alopecia to Hepatitis.
And no, my children would not be the same people if they had DS, or a similar disorder that affects so many systems.
There is absolutely a cult of people who admire and love DS children, find them cute, adopt ten of them etc. That comes along with a government paycheck - SSD - which is pretty hefty.
Through adoption circles, we know people who have made a living out of this. They speak at conservative churches, self published a book, which they sell - and stay home.
Your opinion and your welcome to it but it is not fact.
If your child was injured in some way and lost some of their mental acuity they would not suddenly become different people. They may have different limitation and abilities but they are not different people and should not be considered no more or less than their disorder.
The same goes for other diseases or disorders, they may have a variety of other issues, but it does not fundamentally change who the person is. Do you really think a diabetes or cancer diagnosis defines who the person is? Or that baldness aka alopecia, defines someone?
SSD checks don't come anywhere NEAR defraying the cost of a variety of types of medical care required by people with Down syndrome.
This depends on the individual. Some people with DS are perfectly healthy. Others have a variety of health issues, ranging from mild to severe. Certain issues are associated with DS in greater numbers than in the general population - heart problems, flat feet, visual problems, alopecia, leukemia - but people with DS very rarely develop other forms of cancer, something of great interest to the medical community.
Alopecia is largely a cosmetic issue - wigs and/or hats can cover bare heads, if desired. Glasses and sometimes surgery can improve vision. Surgery and medication can treat many heart probems. Corrective shoes can help flat feet. Even leukemia can be treated, far more successfully now than in the past.
None of these problems is exclusive to individuals with DS. It would be quite unusual for any one person with DS to have all of these other conditions. It would not be unusual for someone with DS to have one or two associated conditions - usually vision-related and easily treated; sometimes cardiac issues, some of which are known to self-correct as a child grows, others of which require surgery and/or medication.
In addition to social security - disability - income, most people with DS are covered by Medicaid or private health insurance in this country.
ETA that the post above mine may have intended to point out that few adopt children with DS in order to profit by disability income. If so, I apologize for misreading it, though my own points still stand.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
