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Between shunning and celebration is the acceptance that these are disabilities and abnormalities. When a child is born with DS, I don't thing anyone throws a party.
Someone with DS is still a person. I can see that you could never get past that. I can tell you that when we got the call that a baby boy with DS was available and were we interested, we threw a party! I can remember the moment like it was yesterday even though it was almost 30 years ago. I remember driving up to the office a couple of hours away and meeting the baby, going back the next day to pick him up. I used to stand over his crib and wonder how anyone could give up a precious baby like that and I felt SO lucky to be chosen to parent him. I never, ever thought we would be able to adopt a baby and we had planned for an older child. That first day after meeting him, we stopped in Topeka at J C Penney and bought baby things, everything baby. As I said, many other families wait for the opportunity to adopt and that is why abortion, terminating the life of such a baby................ Abortion stops a beating heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee
Many. I worked with them in college. So I have known perhaps 200 - 250 adolescents and young adults. Next...
You're posts indicate that you almost worship people with DS. That is the "cult of disabled children" that I referenced.
If you have a heart for DS children, fine. That's good.
My children would be different people if they had DS. As you know, one of our children is adopted, one is not. My wife was under the age of suggested amniocentesis, when she had her procedure.
Families are different. Some can celebrate a job at a gas station, others can't. And still others should not have children at all.
It's best to know what you are.
So, people with DS make you uncomfortable so you think they should just be ripped from the womb and discarded? They should disappear from the face of the earth so you shouldn't have to look at them? It appears you are familiar with institutionalized individuals and it would seem with that high of number that all would not have had Down syndrome. You show a general ignorance about the condition so I am not sure you would recognize it. Sadly, many people that terminate the life of their baby with DS don't get the facts. It must be awful for them to actually see children with DS happy and thriving and wonder if their child wouldn't have been like that had they chose life for their baby.
I have heard that when some people make contact about having their baby adopted that they reconsider once they get information about the condition and realize that their is a list of families that have completed all the requirements for adoption and are just waiting for that phone call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmani
OP, please keep in mind that this woman probably had nothing but good intentions. I made the decision to try to not let something offend me if they had no intention of hurting me.
If we could choose whether or not their children develops in a perfectly healthy manner while in utero, everyone that I would know would want their children to be perfectly healthy. I understand why you're upset which is natural because you have a personal connection with someone who was born with DS.
Forgive me for being intrusive, but does your son have the mental capacity to abuse drugs or commit crimes?
ETA: Actually, most parents can say the same thing. As most kids don't use drugs, nor do they have a criminal criminal record, and most don't plan massacres.
I agree about the particular woman that had made the comments in the presence of the OP but as you can see by some of the comments here, there are people who think that people with DS should not exist.
No, my son doesn't have the mental capacity to abuse drugs or commit crimes. But, some that condemn people with disabilities don't realize that their children, the "normal" ones without genetic complications, can have an array of issues that may cause the parent as much grief as they feel a child with DS or other disability might cause. You cannot assure that you will produce a perfect human being and anyone that thinks along that line should consider sterilization.
Again, I hope anyone that finds out they are having a baby with Down syndrome gets informed and chooses life: http://www.ndsan.org/
I have known several individuals with DS as I worked in the school system in the classrooms. Of course it is going to make a difference as to how a child with DS is brought up just like it does with "normal" children. Had my son been raised in foster care moving from home-to-home, I am sure that would have impacted him just like it would a "normal" child.
Last edited by AnywhereElse; 01-05-2016 at 07:07 AM..
ETA that the post above mine may have intended to point out that few adopt children with DS in order to profit by disability income. If so, I apologize for misreading it, though my own points still stand.
EXACTLY what my point is.
Nobody is adopting children with Down syndrome as a moneymaking scam.
I over heard a woman in the line at the store saying "Those children are so special (and she was referencing a downs syndrome baby) and she was saying 'Just think one day we wont have those defective genes " and they will be able to fix that . I was floored and angry and I turned around and told her , who says they are defective ? who says they need to fix that as you put it , then she had the nerve to say "they are not normal " . I asked her what is normal ? who are the normal police ? . I told her I had a down syndrome brother he lived to be 25 yrs old before he started having health problem and I mean bad ones and he unfortunately passed away and we still miss and I don't believe there was a sweet soul on this earth . I told her I think you should spend some time volunteering for something dealing with down syndrome kids I hope she takes my advice and does so . I think it will do a world of good for her . I mean what is it with people and their thinking ? I cannot fathom someone thinking like that . I tend to get angry when stuff like that is said .
It sounds like she was just speaking clumsily and wasn't being malicious. There are threads over in Great Debates where people coldly propose that disabled babies should be euthanized. It's pretty galling. I think if you had simply turned around, looked that woman in the eye, and simply said, "My brother had Downs," that would have shut her down just fine. Instead, she probably felt defensive and attacked. She didn't go home to think about volunteering; she went home to talk about the dreadful woman at McDonald's. All you really could gave done, if anything, was to make her uncomfortable enough to perhaps deter that mouth next time.
You completely misunderstood TabulaRasa. Her point, which she clarified in her response to my own post, was that those who adopt children with DS do not receive enough SS to cover the costs of rearing these children, nor do they expect this.
And they certainly do not adopt kids with DS in order to make money.
Thanks. That was exactly my point, to refute the assumption that people adopt babies (or children) with disabilities thinking they are cash cows and seeing dollar signs. Adoption is costly. Raising children with disabilities is exhausting, difficult, can stress even strong marriages to the point of collapse, is difficult on siblings (be they biological or not), and extremely expensive. It's not some easy get-rich-quick scheme, as someone seemed to indicate. It's something you do if, among other things, you have a heart for children who require extra care, wish to parent such children, and are in the position to do so.
The idea that there's some sort of epidemic of people saying, "Hey, I know...adopting a child with a chromosomal abnormality, now THERE'S a gravy train I wanna jump on, I'll be set for life, all that disability money upon which I shall live high on the hog, whoo!" is ridiculous. And even if, in some alternate universe, there WERE some huge jackpot incentive for adopting children with disabilities, people adopting a disabled child "for the money" would soon find that, to be honest, they'd be EARNING every cent of any such nonexistent money. Raising children with disabilities is extremely challenging.
Acceptance of what? I have no idea what you are talking about. My child is the best he can be. Because of my son's functioning level, I cannot educate him about his "disorder". I am more than capable of meeting my son's needs on every level.
I'm suggesting that many"normal" kids have to be on drugs and become criminals of which my son is not and will not. So, "normal" and the parenting challenges of a child with special needs isn't always the worst that can happen as some people seem to believe especially those that choose to not let their child ever have a chance in life. So you have no guarantee that parenting will be easy despite having a "normal" child and, I consider our son normal.
Troubling is my thought on your post. Kind of hostile coming from no where in particular. There are people who are able to see "person" first. Most people adopting see that. It isn't about a "cult". It is fine that people don't feel capable of raising a child with a disability but hopefully, since that is a reflection on the parents and not the child, they will allow that child life and as I said, there are people who see "person" first and "disability" second. Inasmuch as you cannot understand why I would choose to parent a child with a disability, I cannot understand why others would not. Well, I have thoughts but...........
You are master of stereotyping now aren't you? Many people have the issues you listed and they are considered "normal".
Do you want to discuss "extremely elevated libidos"? Many of these children are molested as children by families, friends and staff. That is just a fact. I have not seen this. I am not sure where your contact is coming from but it sounds like more institutional behaviors than having to do with children raised in a home with competent parents. As we know, competent parents make a big difference in the life of any child.
Also, I have not seen this "slew of other diagnoses". My son has Down syndrome but no other health issues. This isn't that uncommon. Also, most of the health issues that used to be a problem can now be taken care of when the child is younger.
Also, we adopted our son at 4 weeks of age, paid for the adoption and we received no financial assistance, not cash and not medical. I have heard this before and I don't know what is wrong with people that say that. We did not adopt our son for monetary gain. I worked full-time to part-time while raising our son. I wrote no books and know that the other parents that you describe are not any that I have known.
What I see in your post is the justification that people use to abort babies with Down syndrome and other genetic issues. I am sorry there is so much misinformation. Sorry for the babies that will never have a chance to have a life on earth and sorry for the individuals that eliminate such a baby only to learn that there were other choices that would have let their baby have a chance at a life.
Again, National Down Syndrome Adoption Network Families waiting for the call having completed all the requirements for adoption. In our case, the birth mother was looking for a small family, we had only one son at that time. We had only the two children. Birth parents can participate in locating the type of family they would like their birth child to have and depending on the agency, openness, etc.
And there are also state and more local contacts available.
I do not believe that you can determine the quality of life of anyone but yourself.
Yes. Abortion is legal and I am pro-choice. Why was the amniocentesis invented?
I am not judging anyone for having DS children, being DS, or adopting DS children.
But, it isn't something for me.
When people adopt 15 children with ANY severe disability, I am skeptical. Children without disabilities take an enormous amount of time and energy to raise correctly.
These people either want disability checks for life which they may or may not use for the child - or lot's of attention and praise.
If someone feels called to adopt a DS child - that's wonderful. However, I feel no such calling.
Just be glad they are now called Down's syndrome and not "Mongoloid babies" as was done all the way up through the 1950's!
Also, one should be glad that there are efforts to teach these children all that they can learn, instead of tucking them away in an institution until they die. A good friend of my family had one back in the '50's, and it quietly disappeared, never to be heard of or talked about again.
Be very glad it is not still like that!
Meh, terms of reference change. Mongoloid was an acceptable term back then. Dr. Down's original paper is entitled, "Observation of an Ethnic Classification of Idiots." Do you like Idiot better than Mongoloid?
I had an aunt who was mentally retarded. She died in the mid-1990's, before gussied-up terms like "developmentally disabled" came into vogue. But now, if I said my aunt was retarded, people would clutch their pearls, stagger backwards, and go into a swoon at the horror of using the term.
It IS good that such children aren't locked away and forgotten anymore, as if they were shameful. My grandmother was advised to do so with my aunt, who also had cerebral palsy. She took care of her until she herself was in her 80s and then my aunt went to a nursing home five minutes away where my grandmother could see her every day until my aunt died at 61. There were no schools or help for such kids in the 1930s or 40s.
What a great video! These are students at the Stewart Home and School, just outside of Frankfort, KY, performing in the school's stable and riding ring - the horses must have been out to pasture when this was filmed. I visited the Stewart Home and School last spring, and I was very, very impressed by its effectiveness and fine quality.
Everyone at the Stewart Home and School goes to classes individually designed for their interests and abilities, many have jobs in nearby Frankfort, field trips are held regularly, as are parties, performances, and other social gatherings. The campus is beautiful, and resembles a college campus. Students live in cottages, either in individually furnished and decorated private rooms or with a roommate, if that is their preference. Families are welcome to visit.
Students' ages range from teens to people in their 80s - many are grown children of parents who are unable to care for them at home due to parental age or health. Staff is great and very, very tuned into people with developmental delays, including Down syndrome, Edwards syndrome, and other conditions. The Stewart Home and School was established in 1893 by a Doctor Stewart who had a heart for individuals with developmental delays, and who was well-ahead of his time, as he correctly believed that they could learn and achieve and live happy, productive lives, given opportunity, correct education and direction.
I wish there were more Stewart Homes and Schools, not only in this country, but around the world. It is a very joyful place...
Edited to add that I just watched this on YouTube, as I wanted to read the comments. One viewer (evidently young) was distressed because he thought the students had to go to school in a barn and didn't realize that the school offers an equine program which includes riding as well as caring for horses. I think the stable just made an interested setting for this video, and emphasized the Central Kentucky location. There is a large, well-equiped and modern school building on campus, with classrooms, labs, a library, etc., and a separate gymnasium/auditorium with an attached fitness room for working out. Students eat breakfast in their cottages or dorms, but there is also a cafeteria with a dining hall nearby for other meals.
No one is going to school in a stable, but a lot of learning goes on there!
Last edited by CraigCreek; 01-18-2016 at 10:58 AM..
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