Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have a son who has had behavioral problems for 2-3 years now. Full time daycare providers refused to continue care for him. He was in preschools who also threatened to kick him out at times. He had a screaming fit and cried when I dropped him off and then continued to scream at others the rest of the day. He did as he pleased no matter what the consequences were. He absolutely drove the ladies insane. He was so persistant and constantly misbehaved in different ways. They were not able to get him potty trained like the others.
Recently, at age 5 I had to take him out of kindergarten because of his behavior. He was constantly touching and pokeing others and sometimes kicking others. He wouldn't stay in his seat or pay any attention to the teacher. He did as he pleased and did not fear the principle at all. They had a separate assigned desk accross the room from others for him. He was in time out everyday for unusual extended amounts of time. The priciple told me that it would take the entire year to complete an assesment on him and I was not going to wait that long while he spends most of the time isolated from all the others. I thought he would out grow all this in preschool as I thought that is what preschools were good for.
My son does not handle failure well either and he cannot play any games with others because of his anxiety. He gets too out of control and cannot hande the competition and screams and cries when he looses.
He has had counseling and has seen a professional, but they don't know what is wrong with him as he appears to be normal and very smart while in their office.
I am still trying to label his behavior in order to get the right help.
I have heard that boys are a lot more likely than girls to have these type of behaviors and a lot of them start kindergarten late and will grow out of it.
The government has federal laws and policies regarding mental or behavioral disablilities in public schools. I believe they call it IDEA, and I still have to research more about it.
Sweating in Florida: I feel silly complaining that I'm worried about having to take the services the preschool recommends, when other people are trying so hard to get assessments and treatment for their kids. And I do worry about getting him into a preschool, and then just having him kicked out due to behaviors. He had a great day in the morning and at school today, and then flipped out on his brother when they were arguing about something silly, and his brother (2 1/2) hit him - he was hitting him, kicking him, screaming, and bit him - and I was right on top of him, trying to get a hold of him to stop him. I felt terrible, but handled it better than I usually do. He calmed down very quickly too, which is better than it used to be. It's moments like this that I wish I had some expert to talk to about, and am glad that we will be starting family therapy soon. An expensive proposition though!
I have found Alan Kazdin a helpful resource (Kazdin method to parenting your defiant child), and his book is coming out in paperback in January, I think. Again, it's hard to get all your advice from a book though - I wish I had Kazdin on speed dial to ask a thousand questions of (or at least to be living in easy driving distance of therapy at Yale!). I just started reading another book which has been very interesting so far: "When Labels Don't Fit" by Barbara Probst. All about figuring out your child's temperament, and how to work with it.
Good luck with your son - sounds like you have been working hard on helping him for a while, and know him very well.
With an October birthday, I would wait another year. I have a mid-September bday, my brother a late Sept bday. I did ok, but it was hard always being the youngest. Some kids were a year older than me! For my brother, he was always behind, always less mature. The only thing he fit in with was size, since he was tall. Other than that, my mom has always regretted putting him in school, even though the cutoff date then was Oct 1.
I know your real struggle is with finding a school situation in the meantime, but I would also recommend delaying K another year. Even my average kindergartners whose birthdays are September, October, November, December (our cutoff is Dec 2 - laaaate) really show it. Even their ability to do something as simple as "Get your backpack and check your cubby" is often limited. Then you think about the extra struggles a special need kid is going to have...
Good luck with your decision. I hope you can find a good pre-K placement for him in the interim year if you go that way.
Your son sounds a lot like mine when he was 4. He's now 8. I've endured the variety of diagnoses as well. The psychologist who evaluated hiim at 4.5 years tried to label him ODD. I fouight that (his psychiatrist did not agree anyway). Then the school system tried to use ED coding; I fought that (his psychiatrist did not agree to that either). He was diagnosed with moderate to severe ADHD at around 5 years, and his day treatment program tried to add mood disorder. Fought that too. His psychiatrist (the only one I trusted), suspected PDD-NOS, and she diagnosed him with that at about 6 years, so he could get appropriate services and placement. And also to stop the school from trying to force him onto the ED track. Behavior issues=emotional disturbance in my school system, and ED kids are the "throw-away" kids around here.
As for starting K, that choice is personal. I did not wait with my son. He is very intelligent, and I wanted him to get services asap. So he took the early K admission test (his birthday is in November) and I managed to get him in. Boy, did I get a lot of flack from the school system, because they thought his behavior problems were immaturity. I knew he had a disability, so I wanted the services (he received none in preschool), and my rationale was that one more year was not going to make him less disabled. What if I had waited a year and he still had problems in K? How many years was I supposed to wait to start him?
It's nearly four years later. My son is in a special ed, non-public school, in third grade and doing well academically. He receives the services he needs and is making progress. No, his immaturity (which is part of his disabilities of PDD-NOS and ADHD) and other symptoms of disability have not gone away. No, I am not sorry I didn't wait. Yes, I think not waiting benefitted him.
I don't believe in holding boys back a year just because they are boys and the school systems are female-based. I think the latter reason has a lot of truth. But I think sometimes holding boys back sends a message that things are being dumbed down for them and they can't hack education and academics. That they need advantages given to them, rather than their needs being addressed. Those needs being making school, from K-up, more male-friendly.
I am veering off topic, and I don't want to exacerbate the "gift of a year" debate. Again, the decision of whether to wait a year or not is personal. I would just make sure that that one-year delay will be productive and helpful.
As for the diagnosis, I'd choose a child psychiatrist and explore lots of possibilities, from ADHD to high-functioning autism to sensory disorder, etc. To me, some professionals are too quick to diagnose ODD, MD and even BP. I agree that the ones dealing with your child very likely don't know what's going on.
I am in a similar situation, so I can relate. My 4 year old son is recently had evaluation down from re-evaluation for IEP for next year. The school is thinking about placing in Kindergarten, so they placed him last month in full day special ed preschool from half day. He likes it a lot but he still have issue with social interaction and behavioral issue. We are asked and seen a Neuro-developmental physicians. He told us that he is not autistic but in his report he wrote ppd-nos. He did recommend that my son be in small class Kinergarten with care. We are thinking to send him in Pre-school (mainstream) with help or start him in Kindergarten.
We do need help in determining if we should ask the township for ABA and OT to help him.
My son is 5 and we decided to wait the extra year to start K. His birthday is in July and the cut off here is October 1. Does your public school system offer preschool? I know some school districts offer services such as speech therapy starting before K. Maybe you could still access service, even if he is not enrolled in K.
I don't believe in holding boys back a year just because they are boys and the school systems are female-based. I think the latter reason has a lot of truth. But I think sometimes holding boys back sends a message that things are being dumbed down for them and they can't hack education and academics. That they need advantages given to them, rather than their needs being addressed. Those needs being making school, from K-up, more male-friendly.
I wasn't talking just about boys. Last year it was one of my girls, an October birthday, who just struggled. I'm not talking about academics either. I have two boys this year (October and November) who are academically advanced, but they do struggle with immaturity.
I'm really just talking about the ability of an immature child to cope with the social-emotional demands of school. And if you're adding extra social-emotional needs on top of that of an average late-4...
Anyway, I wasn't suggesting he not receive any services or preparation for school in the year interim if the OP decides to wait. I agree that the year wait should be productive.
I wasn't talking just about boys. Last year it was one of my girls, an October birthday, who just struggled. I'm not talking about academics either. I have two boys this year (October and November) who are academically advanced, but they do struggle with immaturity.
I'm really just talking about the ability of an immature child to cope with the social-emotional demands of school. And if you're adding extra social-emotional needs on top of that of an average late-4...
Anyway, I wasn't suggesting he not receive any services or preparation for school in the year interim if the OP decides to wait. I agree that the year wait should be productive.
I see. The 'holding back boys issue is important to me, and the OP's child is a boy, so that's why I provided a different perspective. I don't believe in holding girls back either. My daughter is also an early K admittee (cutoff is 9/1 and her b-day is in late Sept.). She's fine academically and behaviorally. My late brother (who also had ADHD), was very intelligent and started K when the cutoff was 12/31 (his b-day was in Nov.). He was basically fine, but he did have behavioral issues.
My point is threefold: it depends on the individual child, holding a child back may help immaturity or it may not, and holding a child back can be very overrated.
And I have one more point -- in K there shouldn't be so many high social-emotional and academic demands. Instead of making K like first grade, keep K like K. To me, the problem isn't the late birthdays but what K has become.
Again, I'm veering off topic here, but I wanted to provide another perspective and food for thought.
And I have one more point -- in K there shouldn't be so many high social-emotional and academic demands. Instead of making K like first grade, keep K like K. To me, the problem isn't the late birthdays but what K has become.
Sure, but it is what it is right now, and no teacher has a whole lot of control over that, no matter what their philosophy. I personally am really on the way low end of "Sit in your seat and do this now". But there are expectations that go far above me.
Besides, it's not just that. When I'm talking about social-emotional demands, I'm talking about - Can the child follow a 2-step direction? Can he deal with 19 other small bodies, all with needs and wants of their own, in the same room? Can he deal with an adult calling the shots over when the class will leave for lunch? Some children actually have the most problems during the play period we have each day - no academic demands whatsoever. But sharing, navigating space, making a choice about where to play, and accepting a clean-up transition at the end - all high, high social-emotional demands.
Not all late-birthday K's are an issue, I totally agree and have had some kids who were just fine with their October birthdays. Right now I have this teensy girl who can't be more than 30 pounds, with a crazy home life, late October - and she is just the most together little kid you could ever imagine. Wonderful. I wouldn't suggest she shouldn't be in K at all.
But if you wouldn't put a 3 year old in kindergarten because it's not developmentally appropriate, then why put a chronological 5 year old who is LIKE another 3 year old in it just because he's old enough -if you had a choice? Many people don't really, and I respect that.
Anyway, it is of course the OP's decision, ultimately. It sounds like her child is going to experience some difficulty in school no matter when he starts. But I did want to chime in as a K teacher.
Last edited by bigcats; 02-11-2009 at 07:20 PM..
Reason: sentence structure
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
