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Old 02-12-2009, 08:47 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 4,423,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcats View Post
Sure, but it is what it is right now, and no teacher has a whole lot of control over that, no matter what their philosophy. I personally am really on the way low end of "Sit in your seat and do this now". But there are expectations that go far above me.

Besides, it's not just that. When I'm talking about social-emotional demands, I'm talking about - Can the child follow a 2-step direction? Can he deal with 19 other small bodies, all with needs and wants of their own, in the same room? Can he deal with an adult calling the shots over when the class will leave for lunch? Some children actually have the most problems during the play period we have each day - no academic demands whatsoever. But sharing, navigating space, making a choice about where to play, and accepting a clean-up transition at the end - all high, high social-emotional demands.

Not all late-birthday K's are an issue, I totally agree and have had some kids who were just fine with their October birthdays. Right now I have this teensy girl who can't be more than 30 pounds, with a crazy home life, late October - and she is just the most together little kid you could ever imagine. Wonderful. I wouldn't suggest she shouldn't be in K at all.

But if you wouldn't put a 3 year old in kindergarten because it's not developmentally appropriate, then why put a chronological 5 year old who is LIKE another 3 year old in it just because he's old enough -if you had a choice? Many people don't really, and I respect that.

Anyway, it is of course the OP's decision, ultimately. It sounds like her child is going to experience some difficulty in school no matter when he starts. But I did want to chime in as a K teacher.
I appreciate your comments. I do tend to support the teachers and put the responsibility for what K has become on school administration and school districts.

Regarding two-step directions and the other things you mentioned, my son's disabilities made it very difficult for him to do those things without accommodation. My observation is that difficulty would remain whether I waited or not. In fact, despite his improvement, he still has some difficulty. Additionally, he can be wiggling all over the place and still follow the lesson, although that has become a bit more difficult for him in third grade, that transition year. Many times, the social-emotional struggles are the disability. It would have been so much easier if my son had been merely immature and not ready for K (if he weren't disabled) . If that was the extent of the problem, I may have considered waiting a year or putting him in a good, academically rigorous pre-K. Or putting him in a K with a smaller class, or (if I could) homeschooling. In other words, there are sometimes alternatives to waiting a year. A lot of readiness has to do with readiness for a particular environment.

I enjoyed this discussion. I don't know if the OP did! Sorry if I hijacked.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:34 PM
 
Location: CA
830 posts, read 2,705,381 times
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Quote:
Many times, the social-emotional struggles are the disability.
I totally agree there, and you're right - in that case the struggle will be there whether you wait or not. But I still think that, if a kid is on the lower end of the age range, and there is a maturity issue, AND an alternative placement rather than no service in the interim, it's wise to consider that there may be some progress and better ability to cope after growing for another year.

Yes, I enjoyed the discussion too! And I do hope it is helpful in some way to the OP
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Woodlawn, Bronx
54 posts, read 180,676 times
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"Many times, the social-emotional struggles are the disability."

I guess that's been my issue from the beginning - I have no idea if my child actually has a disability or is socially immature. We are in the middle of a neuropsychological assessment (she just finished the testing, and now we need to wait for the report). We have been doing private play therapy, but I am stopping that for now, as I don't really see how that is helping my husband and I learn how to help him stop his misbehavior, and learn new skills. Instead, this week we will begin working with a psychologist who specializes in a form of parent management training known as Parent Child Interaction Therapy. She specializes in anxious children, which I think will be helpful, as we are seeing more and more how that has a basis in a lot of his behaviors. I have also found a great private pre-k/kindergarten that has a couple of my friends' children in it (and these kids are no angels!). It seems to be a great school with a lot going on academically, so that might build on his strengths (very intelligent and curious). I guess I'll be making a lot of my decisions based on what the neuropsychologist says. If she thinks it's appropriate, I will start him at the private pre-k after we have had about 3 months of the parent management training, which will hopefully have an positive impact on his behavior (other things we have targeted with this approach on our own have shown significant improvement, we just need help with staying on it, and how to work more of the behaviors).

Thank you so much to all who have replied, and for all your perspectives!
Teresa
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Edison, NJ
28 posts, read 113,917 times
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Teresa,
I hope that the evaluation will help you. The neurodevelopmental psychiatrist that my wife and I took told us to have plenty with play dates with friends. He even told us that my son needs correct role model by watching mainstream peers interact and play with small class setting. My son is very similar to yours, so I can identify your confusion and pain as both my wife and I are going through. One thing that might be different is that I have both physical disability with some limited use on my left side along with nerve damage since birth. Although, I believe that LD or disability doesn't hinder acadmecially, I often blame myself for his delay and problems although my wife doesn't think so. He is currently in special ed preschool that he enjoys.
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Woodlawn, Bronx
54 posts, read 180,676 times
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Noyha: I completely understand about blaming yourself - I have been hard on myself for my postpartum anxiety, for having another (wonderful) boy so quickly (19 months apart), for keeping him in a school that might have been a bad fit from the beginning, for not getting enough sleep and being short tempered, having to work in the first place - you name it, I have blamed myself for it! I do think he has a genetic predisposition for anxiety - it's highly prevalent on both sides of the family.

I do want him to spend more time with peers who are good role models. Unfortunately, the one great friend he has is a TERRIBLE role model as far as behavior goes, and I don't make playdates often with him (his mom and I are friends, and they went to the same school/class together). We haven't met a lot of people in the neighborhood. We finally started a gymnastics program. I thought I was taking care of his socialization needs by having him in a pre-k, but the class he's in does not have good role models either (one of my huge concerns in letting him be placed in a self-contained room for kids with behavioral issues). I just can't seem to win with this one!

When he meets kids at the playground, etc., he actually relates really well with them, attempts to make friends, deals well with kids who might be too rough, etc. I have a lot of hope based on this alone.

I should get the results of the neuropsych eval in a week or so. I'm very nervous about what she's going to say, but I'm trying to be optimistic. We met with the parent management psychologist, and my husband and I will be meeting with her for 3 to 4 weeks without Declan to go over techniques, and then she work with us with Declan, and then some time with him teaching him coping strategies for frustrating situations (which I think she tries to engineer, if I understand it correctly). She also mentioned a study that was going on, in which we would be monitored on webcam, and the therapist would give us instructions via an ear piece! Very interesting idea, and I'm thinking about it.

A lot of possiblities!
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Edison, NJ
28 posts, read 113,917 times
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Teresa: I completely understand your situation also. Yesterday, I had a meeting with the child study team regarding my son for this year and the next. They told us that he was placing out of the preschool program due to his age. In addition, since my son is diagnosed with Pdd-Nos (but with most symptoms will fade as he age), they want to umbrella him into autism classification so that he can get the help and the needs. Although, the doctor strongly recommended small class setting with mainstream students to have good behavior. The want to place him in primary special ed class with autism that comprise of K to 2nd students along with integration into mainstream class as he shows improvement. They wanted us to sign for at least the approval but it could change since it is still months away for end of school year and ESY (Extended School Year) to complete. I am not sure if it will halp him socially or behaviorally since the teacher already noted that he is better than some, and how he can improve in these settings. So I understand your frustrations and confusion.


By the way, how was your result pf neropsych evaluations? It is tough when there is no sure answer but as parents we most try hard.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Woodlawn, Bronx
54 posts, read 180,676 times
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We got the results of the neuropsych, and had a surprise in the diagnosis: attention deficity hyperactivity disorder - very impulsive, etc. I am beyond irritated that the school did not pick up on this much earlier. When I think about it, every sign points to it: can't sit still, fidgeting all the time, flopping all over the place. Add it it some social anxiety, and some oppositional behavior, and you have all the ingredients for disaster, especially since we weren't targeting the underlying problem (the ADHD). It shouldn't have been a surprise at all, given the amount of ADD and ADHD in both sides of the family, but the school spent so much time focusing on behavior, and low muscle tone, that it never really came up. And he's not a classic, can't stop running kind of ADHD kid.

I am very excited though, oddly enough, because now we can now exactly what kind of treatment to go for: judicious use of medication, and the cognitive behavior therapy we've already started. And I'm thrilled that I don't have to worry about him going into the school system labeled as emotionally disturbed!

I'm really hoping that by September, the therapy and medication will have worked well enough for him to tolerate a mainstream class with supports. I'm hoping I can use a good school that is close to my job, but if not there's the local school. Unfortunately the classes there are large, and he would benefit from a smaller one. But I'm sure I'd have to hire a lawyer to get the NYC Dept of Ed to fund a private school. It's not going to get easier, but it's nice to have a direction to go in! Unfortunately, all those decisions have to be made soon, and I'm sure that it will be a while before we see the positive effect of medication and therapy on some of his issues (frustration tolerance, being too hard on himself, etc).

And I'm still mad at his pre-k, which specializes in children with special needs, but never picked up on this

And on the plus side, we got confirmation that he is ridiculously bright, especially in the verbal area. He's going to take over the world if he stays focused long enough
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:33 PM
 
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I know this post was quite a long time ago but I'm interested to know the outcome. My son is currently in a VERY similar situation and I'm at a loss as to what to do next.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:54 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,796,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKoehn View Post
I know this post was quite a long time ago but I'm interested to know the outcome. My son is currently in a VERY similar situation and I'm at a loss as to what to do next.
Start a new thread and give more information about what you want to know.
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Old 05-03-2011, 07:40 AM
 
589 posts, read 1,342,832 times
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If you have the option, I would definitely keep him out of kindergarten for another year. There's no sense pushing him, you are almost guaranteeing his failure if you do.

Set him up to succeed! Transitioning was a major issue for my son, and I got tired of having to preplan, and pre-explain, my every movement. I learned to give him warnings.... 'You've got 10 more minutes in the pool' 'five more minutes' etc, instead of just announcing 'Time to get out!'. This helped enormously, as he learned to adjust to the idea of a change before the change happened.

I also started announcing 'surprises'. 'There's a surprise later/tomorrow/in 10 minutes/etc'. In the beginning, ALL surprises were AMAZING. The amusement park. Ice Cream. A new toy. Slowly, the surprises became smaller. A favorite tv show. A bright colored straw in his drink. Etc. Surprises went on to become even more neutral. A different road to go to a familiar place. An extra stop while running errands - to the dry cleaner. It's a long (several years) process, but now he does pretty well with unexpected events and quick changes in plans.
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