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Old 11-16-2009, 08:20 PM
 
2,357 posts, read 3,227,827 times
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I'm the Uncle, so I'm very concerned about bringing this up to my sister. For all I know, it has been looked into, but her 1 yr 11 month old girl's behavior is....shocking.

They have 2 girls, the 5 year old is one of those "top percentile of everything" kids that everyone claims to have - - but I've spent time at her school and talked w/teachers, etc., and they all echo praise.


The other girl, though, 1 yr 11 months. I'm not trying to be comical here. She is like a wild animal. In three minutes inside a little salad place, she ran and knocked food off 2 tables, knocked a good sized little boy down, threw salt and pepper shakers at least 15 feet across the room, spat every bite back into mom's face, climbed with hulklike strength UP me from the ground so she could "tickle" me by nearly yanking an eye out of its socket, and shrieked to Holy Hell.

But this is a full time thing with her when they go anywhere. She's like a little gorilla, I have NEVER seen someone so strong, and strong willed. But is it will?

She recognizes Mom, sister, objects, knows to look at the object that is being pointed at, not the hand doing the pointing, understands concepts of Hot and cold, loves to be held by mom or dad, and is so sweet at home after a bath. She watches tv, knows her shows, kind of sings along, and has a growing vocabulary.

But the behavior out of the house is just something to behold.

My sister will not physically discipline, and her husband is kind of absent, and when around just lets them do what they want.

I don't understand this kind of wildness in a little girl, it looks like infant roid rage at times.

Any thoughts? thanks.

P.S.: If you're thinking "that's just a 2 year old," I must add that the 5 year old's school has banned her from coming w mom to pick up the older one. My parents, siblings, everyone who has ever seen the little one in action all concur that they have never seen this kind of behavior, that she is exponentially wilder than any other child they've seen.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:01 PM
 
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Well, its hard without actually seeing her, but two year olds can be terrible and if they aren't disciplining they can be really terrible. My 5yr old is also a saint, very bright etc. My 3yr old is hell on wheels, strong as an ox and wild. We seriously discipline him but he's still the "bad little boy" in preschool, he requires serious consistency and lots and LOTS of exercise.

Yes, your niece could have something concerning but at not even two I would assume she has a difficult personality and needs more exercise than she's getting. If it were me I would cut out the tv completely (proven to add to attention issues), remove a lot of the stimulation from her life (limited restaurants, malls etc) and get the kid to the park every day rain or shine. I would personally also consider spanking, although you never know if that will help.

If it continues or she shows other worrying signs, I'd get her evaluated around 4.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:06 PM
 
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Exercise. She has, like German gymnast hamstrings. No fat. I'm 6'2", 250, and she runs as fast as she can and darn near takes me down if I'm not ready for it.

She flops around, hits her head, falls over and over, and just laughs it off. Incredible balance, but still manages to fall often.

I think you might be dead-on. Thank you. They do have a huge yard,and she loves to run. AND that's something I can just end up doing with her, not like I'm trying to play doc and diagnose her.

Thank you very much.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:13 PM
 
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You may consider sensory issues, also. Bright florescent lights, loud restaurants, that type of thing might also drive her crazy.

Discipline is huge. If she's not taught that certain things are just not allowed, she will never know and continue to act out.

Exercise is a good point. How are her fine motor skills?

If things remain the same, I would have her evaluated at 3. Look into your local early intervention program.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:57 PM
 
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Sounds like the kid is in need of a few(many many) good spankings.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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Its difficult without seeing her, but it could go either way. If it were my child, family or close friend - i would ask about having her evaluated. Perhaps you could compliment her strength and speed and ask what her pediatrician says about it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:44 PM
 
1,592 posts, read 1,989,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfhtex View Post
I'm the Uncle, so I'm very concerned about bringing this up to my sister. For all I know, it has been looked into, but her 1 yr 11 month old girl's behavior is....shocking.

They have 2 girls, the 5 year old is one of those "top percentile of everything" kids that everyone claims to have - - but I've spent time at her school and talked w/teachers, etc., and they all echo praise.


The other girl, though, 1 yr 11 months. I'm not trying to be comical here. She is like a wild animal. In three minutes inside a little salad place, she ran and knocked food off 2 tables, knocked a good sized little boy down, threw salt and pepper shakers at least 15 feet across the room, spat every bite back into mom's face, climbed with hulklike strength UP me from the ground so she could "tickle" me by nearly yanking an eye out of its socket, and shrieked to Holy Hell.

But this is a full time thing with her when they go anywhere. She's like a little gorilla, I have NEVER seen someone so strong, and strong willed. But is it will?

She recognizes Mom, sister, objects, knows to look at the object that is being pointed at, not the hand doing the pointing, understands concepts of Hot and cold, loves to be held by mom or dad, and is so sweet at home after a bath. She watches tv, knows her shows, kind of sings along, and has a growing vocabulary.

But the behavior out of the house is just something to behold.

My sister will not physically discipline, and her husband is kind of absent, and when around just lets them do what they want.

I don't understand this kind of wildness in a little girl, it looks like infant roid rage at times.

Any thoughts? thanks.

P.S.: If you're thinking "that's just a 2 year old," I must add that the 5 year old's school has banned her from coming w mom to pick up the older one. My parents, siblings, everyone who has ever seen the little one in action all concur that they have never seen this kind of behavior, that she is exponentially wilder than any other child they've seen.
Put that child in a gymnastics program -- NOW! America, meet our next Olympian!
No, I'm not kidding! She sounds like a physically talented little girl and her energy should be directed in a postive direction. Remember Michael Phelps was diagnosed with ADHD and his mom put him in swim classes.

Also, check her for allergies -- I've heard that food dyes can cause hyperactive reactions in kids. Since she was acting up in a restaurant, could she have eaten something she shouldn't have?
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:37 AM
 
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If she only gets like this in unfamiliar places, yes it could be autism spectrum. If she has had no delays in development, it is generally considered Asperger's rather than Autism. Or at least according to my kids' medically trained psychiatrist rather than the psychologist. There are physical signs and medical clues that are going unnoticed because most people don't know about them and psychiatrists are very rarely given the authority to diagnosis as well as treat. Nor recognizing all faces are a sign. My kids knew by context that I was mom but gave hugs to strangers because they looked like teachers and other caregivers.

These kind of kids are sensitive to crowds, smells, loud noises, bright lights, even certain colors. The actual thing to learn about to share with your sister is "sensory processing disorder". If you ask mom to keep track of these outbursts in a diary it will help in the up to 2 year wait for a diagnosis. Keep track of surrounding too and not just behavior. But treatment is available to reduce behavior like this and accustomed a child to it over time. The wrong way of doing it (just keep exposing them to crowds, etc) will only make the behavior WORSE and more traumatic for the child. Gradual exposure and the positive reinforcement of GOOD behavior will make a difference.

Yes, kids with autism spectrum or asperger's can get violent and pushy when they feel uncomfortable or feel they are being treated badly. Negative reinforcement or punishment (spanking) will also result in WORSE outcome. Yes, children at this age can't say they feel uncomfortable. I still don't often hear from my eight year old when he is uncomfortable but I know it when he gets hyper. The affects of a negative or over-sensory situation will last the ENTIRE remaining part of the day.

Yes, girls can get autism spectrum and ADHD too. It just means that these children LEARN differently and if you cannot adjust to that difference then you won't have good results in the long run. But of course not everyone cares about what happens in the long run. There is a lot to learn because what works for some kids will NOT for all kids. Sarcasm here, expect that everyone hates the idea of individualized treatment but that IS the only thing that works!

Good luck to you and your family. The earlier the intervention (at age 3 she is eligible for services from Child Find at any US school district) the better the outcome. Hopefully you live in a place that doesn't just blame autism or ADHD on bad parenting because it is more biological than behavior.

Here are some resources to increase your awareness: http://www.asperger.net/bookstore.htm (broken link)

Last edited by leavingGA; 11-19-2009 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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I second the gymnastics recomendation!!!! She does show some signs that could be related to aspergers, but what it sounds (from your descriptions) is just a wide open personality. Discipline is very important to a child of this age and ability. Consistant discipline. There are many forms of discipline from corporal to redirection to natural consequence. A child this age should be able to behave for short periods in a restaurant environment (think golden corral or bob evans style... not the russian tea room). I have a child with ASD, and while he had serious meltdowns and is unsure of boundries sometimes, through discipline (never needed corporal style for him) we have a child at 11 who we can take to any restaurant or shopping mall. We have used the phrase "time and place" numerous times because we do expect proper behavior, we know he needs to let the buggles out or he will have a serious meltdown.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
8,640 posts, read 14,829,453 times
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I agree, it could be a situation outside the norm, such as asperger's. However, this is not exactlly politically correct to say anymore, but you did mention your sis would not physically discipline the child, and I totally believe this could make a difference assuming the child does not have some type of disability. ( Essentially, I am just agreeing with rockinmama above said about discipline.)

Some typical, normal 2 year olds are pretty "active." My own son was. In fact, I used to jokingly refer to him as "my wild child" but he was not out of control as you described. It obviously is not your sister asking for advice, but I would recommend she read James Dobson's The Strong-Willed Child for some help and wisdom.
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