Spokane vs Colorado Springs (Seattle, Fairchild AFB: sales, rent, health insurance)

[flyerone]

I have the chance to transfer to either Spokane or Colorado Springs, I haven't been to either city yet. My wife and I are in our 40's, no kids, looking for at least an acre of land to have a couple of horses. Looking to spend up to 350,000, don't care that much about a night life, but do need a Costco, Walmart, Best Buy, or those type of stores. Which city would be the best match? Don't care that much for snow but understand it's part of the deal.

[kena]

I've never spent real time in Colorado Springs but it is mentioned frequently as a comparable city to Spokane. You'll find them similar in terms of size and I know you'll have no trouble finding the types of stores you list in Spokane and I would assume the same for Colorado Springs.

There is plenty of land around Spokane where it is possible to keep horses. Thankfully, traffic in Spokane is still relatively light so if you work in the city it isn't too bad getting out to areas where you can have that kind of property.

The weather is pretty similar between the two. It looks like CS has slightly warmer hi temps in the winter but lower low temps than Spokane. It also appears that CS gets most of its precip in the summer whereas Spokane gets most of its precip in the winter. A matter of preference as to which is better.

CS is also closer to a major city in Denver wheras Spokane is a decent distance from Seattle. That can work both ways as well I suppose. I'm not sure what level of entertainment/cultural amenities are present in CS since it is realatively close to Denver (e.g. broadway shows, symphony, etc). Spokane tends to have those things because it is the largest city in its region although it doesn't have them on the order of a major city like Denver.

One additional consideration is that Washington has no income tax but does have sales tax.

If you have further things that are important to you I'm sure others will try and help with your decision.

[Roberoo]

For years Spokane has been a retirement community.
If you are post-military Spokane has Fairchild AFB a large military facility.
Spokane is conservative, your population is 70% republican.
The media in Spokane is conservative, Truman called the Spokesman Review (Spokane Newspaper) the worst "Yellow Journalism in the USA" and it hasn't changed hands or style in 108 years.
There are at least 60 lakes within 50 miles of Spokane and the Northern Idaho Lakes are still quite Pristine and large.
Many people own horses on the outskirts of Spokane, but the N. S. Traffic flow can be frustrating as there isn't a N.S. freeway.
Schools tend to be better in the Southern side of Spokane.
There is a constant flow of good talent here, Phantom of the Opera is in town presently. We have a symphony, and average night life.
The small cities which surround the area are very pleasant and generally in a woodsy atmosphere, many surround lakes.
Spokane has lots to offer the retiring couple. But no professional sports teams, and Seattle well.. . . . . .
Spokane also has gangs, twice the national average in theft and violent crimes. While murder is low, Spokane exceeds the national average in all other categories even L.A. per capita. Auto theft is rampant.
[SIZE=3]Spokane[/SIZE], WA
[SIZE=3]New York[/SIZE], NY
[SIZE=3]National[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3]32.2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Robbery:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]195.8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]287.9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]205.8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Aggravated Assault:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]351.6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]329.6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]336.5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Burglary:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]1081.4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]271.1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]813.2[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3]1412.9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]2601.7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Vehicle Theft:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]1148.4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]195.2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]501.5[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In Washington State alone, the suicide rate among youth is about 10% higher than the national average. Suicide is the second leading cause of death among young adults in Washington; the leading cause being motor vehicle accidents.1[/SIZE]
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Spokane has good health facilities but two of the 4 hospitals were just sold to a corp. out of Arizona and this will put many people outside the financial reality of "good" health care.
Spokane isn't designed around youth, as a retirement town it is a far better place for those in their 40's-60's.
Lots of real-estate, buffered a bit from the national bubble.
1/4 of Spokane is domesticated by lower middle, and middle and upper poor.
Spokane is an easy commute East and West to N. Idaho or 256 miles of farm and rural land between here and Seattle.
In closing Spokane is a turnstile to the East, and West through which agricultural good flow, there are very large wheat farms south of Spokane for 100 miles +
Aside from the medical field or specialization finding good paying jobs is lower than the national average. If you don't make 60k a year this is not were you want to be as the cost of living is low but that has caused the less affluent to populate Spokane.
If your a conservative republican, who is retiring with a good income Spokane is for you ! Lots for that age group to do. Good access to big city air ports.
Personally I like the coast, the Oregon coast specifically, as I am 40 and own a company that I can put anywhere. But I do like Wa. States tax structure -- I hunt and fish and it's good here but not nearly as good as the Or. coast... Good luck.. rent first !!
Note: If you have a chronic disease or injury that requires pain-management DO NOT come to Spokane as there are 0 MD's accepting pain patients and 0 pain clinics..


[SIZE=1]References:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]1. http://www.association-office.com/ab...cfm#detail.cfm[/SIZE]
Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed, link removed
[SIZE=1]3. YSPP Youth Suicide Prevention Program[/SIZE]

[JDTD]

Didn't the Spokesman Review just endorsed Christine Gregoire there Roberoo?

[kena]

A few points in response to Roberoo. In general I think much of the post is fair.

I'm not sure where the 70% republican statistic comes from. If you look at recent elections I would say Spokane County is evenly balanced: Spokane county (which includes a good deal of rural area) voted for Gore over Bush in 2000 (55 to 45 %). The county went to Bush in 2004 (44 to 56 percent). In the most recent vote for Senator (2006), the county voted for Cantwell (D) with 57.5% of the vote.

The crime rate between Colorado Springs and Spokane is very similar: Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed, link removed

The two hospitals were recently sold to Community Health Systems, based in Tennesee (largest operator of private hospitals in the country). Whether that is good or bad is a judgment call I suppose. SR.com: Deaconess sale approved

Yes, incomes tend to be lower in Spokane but it seems that the poster looking to make the choice already knows what he will be making. You don't need to make 60k in Spokane to buy a house, etc. If you do make 60k you can live fairly well.

[Roberoo]

[SIZE=2] Having grown up and then at 17 left Spokane with the self-promise I would never return, I do have my prejudices. I find the Seattle and Portland areas (I lived in each for 15 years) attractive for their "live and let live philosophy."

Our US Rep has voted: Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers
Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA)

• Representing: Washington, District 5 Washington, District 5
• Voted with Republican Party:95.1% of 1651 votes
• 95.1 percent of 1651 votes.

She wasn't re-elected because she has a balanced voting record.
She was re-elected because of her political beliefs and how she votes.

Kena wrote: "Whether that is good or bad is a judgment call I suppose." SR.com: Deaconess sale approved

I suggest this isn't a judgment call at all, for those who's health insurance leaves them with high deductibles, or those with minimum, or no insurance. Having been a MPH and in the field for years I can tell you that the other two hospitals and Spokane's 4 DSHS clinics have NO idea how they will deal with the deflected flow of patients who will find no quarter in the recently purchased, (2) two for-profit hospital's. To many health care isn't like a collage elective class that you can take or leave.
Perhaps this issue should have been presented to all those who will be effected and that is all of a dozen counties where serious accident victims depend on the Spokane health system for help in an emergency.
The quality of health care in any community the size of Spokane is a important consideration when moving there, and this sale will cater to those who have Cadillac insurance and put their own care far above the good of the community. The fact is that many who have had ample medical insurance can not afford it presently, or their policies have been whittled away to large deductibles and less and less coverage's.
I suggest there are few more striking examples where the small print voids the large print than with Health Insurance. With Health Care on the ropes, it is "my" opinion that to switch any hospital from non-prof to for-prof is the antithesis of the community's need. I will grant you that the staff of these hospitals have been promised better wages and less work; not exactly reflective of such a critical service industry should embody. All these folks from out of town who will take billions of health dollars out of the community back to their communities is not going to improve our community in the least.

Kena wrote : "If you do make 60k you can live fairly well. &
Whether that is good or bad is a judgment call I suppose."

I believe the statements made concerning the sale of Spokane's hospitals to "out of town-for profit " corps are less of a judgment call than the cost of living in Spokane. You can live quite cheaply comparatively here in Spokane, but if you want to enjoy the boating, skiing, horses, cabin on the lake, type of life you need more than what Rossi (running for governor) called "not a family wage" when he told people he would lower the minimum dollar an hour wage.
A community is only as good as it's people and if those people don't see a need to continually improve the police force, fire districts, ROADS (Spokane has serious road improvement needs) schools, and infrastructure, then those 'elements' that make a community desirable to those who evaluate it's livability won't be there.


I know people who will not put bumper stickers on their vehicles as they are afraid their car/trucks will be harmed. They have to keep their opinions to themselves when out in public. For those who find a 50's mentality endearing this is a good place to live.
Unfortunately people have to watch what they say, what they wear, and how they express themselves compared with the Seattle / Portland area's.
Spokane is less tolerant of diversity (e.g. "little Africa") than the coast, where people have more of a "live and let live" philosophy.
Spokane is a great mid-sized enclave if you are a retiring person who loves lakes,
skiing, hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, and to the near West is some of the finest eye candy on this earth. I chose to raise my kids elsewhere and that is because I believe Spokane lacks in tollerance and it comes out to many visitors as an unfriendly town.
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[Deena160]

Originally Posted by Roberoo

[SIZE=2] ...you need more than what Rossi (running for governor) called "not a family wage" when he told people he would lower the minimum dollar an hour wage...

I know people who will not put bumper stickers on their vehicles as they are afraid their car/trucks will be harmed. They have to keep their opinions to themselves when out in public.[/SIZE]

Okay BE FAIR! You've been believing too many Gregoire commercials. When Rossi was talking about lowering the minimum wage, he was talking about a training wage for teenagers not for adults who may have to be flipping burgers or whatever for a living. FactCheck.DinoRossi.com

A plug for healthcare: I'm not an expert, but I have lived in a country with socialized medicine. It's not pretty. I know there's got to be a better way, but even getting close to emulating systems the likes of England, Canada, or Australia would be an absolute disaster.

Finally, I have been afraid to put a bumper sticker on my car here in the Seattle area. Last presidential election there were plenty of stories of Bush stickers being ripped off and cars being vandalized. My own bumper sticker was taken (no doubt by some open-minded, peace-loving liberal) a week before the election.

I've been looking for a new bumper sticker for months, but nothing seemed right. Feeling like I wanted to do something besides annoy my friends and family with emails, I had a sticker custom made for my vehicle a few days ago. It's 4" x 14" and says: PRO-LIFE Not above my "pay grade" cuz Jesus paid for me!

If you don't know what the candidates have said about abortion, then you won't get it. If you do, maybe it'll make you think about what's really important.

I know, it's practically screaming, "GO AHEAD! PULL ME OFF!!" At least they can't ignore it--That was kind of the point. :~) D

[kena]

I fear we're getting a little off topic here but just a few additional points:

I have also lived in Seattle and Portland so I understand a good understanding of the pros and cons of each place.

Sure, Cathy McMorris-Rodgers is a pretty down the line Republican. That said, she is only one elected official from Spokane. My initial post pointed out that Spokane County is pretty even in its voting between Democrats and Republicans in national, state and local races. I would guess the presidential split will be within the 55/45 range of the past two presidential elections. The state senate majority leader (Lisa Brown) is a Democrat from Spokane.

I would say it truly is a matter of personal choice for people whether they prefer to live somewhere with a fairly even partisan balance or somewhere more one sided, be it Republican or Democrat.

In terms of the sale of the hospitals, I would personally agree that the sale is probably a negative but there are others who would have a very reasonable argument that it is a positive. A debate about the US healthcare system is beyond the scope of this thread so I will leave this issue there.

It would be a good thing if median income levels in Spokane were higher. That said, Spokane is a place where teachers, etc. can still buy homes in decent areas of town. For friends and family in the Seattle area that just isn't possible (short of living in one of the more distant cities). Some consider the trade off worthwhile while others do not.

Sure, if you want to have a place on the lake you're going to need to bring in a higher income (it wasn't too long ago people of fairly average means had simple little lake places but that is certainly more and more rare these days) but you can enjoy much of what Spokane offers in terms of outdoor opporunities for little to no cost (camping, fishing, hiking, biking, even skiing is relatively affordable compared to many other areas of the country).

If you drive around town I don't think you'll see any shortage of political signs, stickers, etc. I really like Seattle and Portland but it could be argued it would take courage to sport McCain signs, t-shirts, etc. without fearing one would take some stick for it. Seattle and, to a lesser extent, Portland are more diverse culturally and ethnically and I appreciate that. Spokane is becoming more diverse though it is happening at a slower rate than the larger cities of Seattle and Portland. While there is always room for improvement, I consider Spokane to be pretty tolerant and pretty friendly.

[fy10fyr]

Originally Posted by kena

I really like Seattle and Portland but it could be argued it would take courage to sport McCain signs, t-shirts, etc. without fearing one would take some stick for it.

I agree. You're more likely to get s--t for supporting McCain in Seattle, than you are for supporting Obama in Spokane.

[Deena160]

Originally Posted by kena

I fear we're getting a little off topic here...

Guilty. But he started it!

Oooh, I hate when my kids say that!!! lol. :~) D