Thinking of relocating to Spokane...Bad move or Good move???? (felons, live)

[chiaroscuro]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

As far as crime goes, what freaking crime????????

Compared to LA this place is as wild and scary as a petting zoo – seriously.

My wife and I have walked around downtown even around Dick’s hamburgers area, felony flats and hillyard all at night. The ‘bad element’ here in Spokane wouldn’t survive a day in Jr. High school in LA.

Sheez Spokane police didn’t even get it’s first helicopter until a couple of years ago and it barely seems to fly.

We live north of the city and the owners of the house we bought didn’t even have keys for it. They never locked the door. My wife has a very nice Ford 250 Diesel with a $ 700 radio and a removable faceplate on it. In LA if we didn’t remove the faceplate it would be stolen (it happened once, the only time she didn’t do, running into a 7-11). Up here we have never removed it and nothing has ever been stolen, she doesn’t even lock the tailgate up here, down in LA it would have been off in 10 minutes.

My neighbor leaves tens of thousands of dollars of tools out in a open shed, welders, engine hoists, compressors, etc. No alarm, no door, no nothing and he is gone about 3 months out of the year. Never had anything stolen.

Granted if you were in downtown you can’t be so careless, but if you look at the crime roosters most of them appear to be juvenile opportunity type crimes.

I had a CCW in California and almost always carried; up here I feel no need. When you hear gunshots up here, they are long guns and its hunting season, to date I have never heard small arms fire in Spokane, not like LA where we would hear it 2-3 times a week.

Sometimes I hope criminals are not patrolling the city-data forums and reading this stuff.

[RetiredChef]

Originally Posted by chiaroscuro

Sometimes I hope criminals are not patrolling the city-data forums and reading this stuff.

I hope they are.

If you read the post it was clear that gunshots could be heard - they were hunters. Most people around me are armed - hence the low crime rate.

My neighbors tool shed is about 400 yards from my house; I can keep my 30.06 groupings at 6" from 400 yards. He can do 5" groupings with his .308. We all have multi-use alarms systems (aka dogs) up here that alert us when someone is about a mile away.

A couple of days ago a guy was cruising close to our area and taking pictures of children. The alarms were barking like crazy and his suspicious behavior prompted two citizens to approach him. He had no reason to be here and in their judgment was not of good moral character. So they persuaded him, with the help of a 12 gauge, that he did not belong around here.

Crime runs high when people are scared and there is fear in the air. Criminals know this, they also know that if people take a proactive stance for protection of themselves and their property then the criminal will have a very poor success rate and crime rates will be low.

Criminals congregate in high crime areas because that is where they will be most successful and will blend in. They stay away from low crime areas with armed proactive citizens.

As I said, I hope the criminals are reading this - if you feel brave pay us a visit up here - we would loooooooooooove to have a talk with you.

[AZtoWhere]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I hope they are.

If you read the post it was clear that gunshots could be heard - they were hunters. Most people around me are armed - hence the low crime rate.

<SNIP>
Crime runs high when people are scared and there is fear in the air. Criminals know this, they also know that if people take a proactive stance for protection of themselves and their property then the criminal will have a very poor success rate and crime rates will be low.

Criminals congregate in high crime areas because that is where they will be most successful and will blend in. They stay away from low crime areas with armed proactive citizens.

As I said, I hope the criminals are reading this - if you feel brave pay us a visit up here - we would loooooooooooove to have a talk with you.

Or, as they also say.....

An armed society is a polite society.

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I hope they are.

If you read the post it was clear that gunshots could be heard - they were hunters. Most people around me are armed - hence the low crime rate.

My neighbors tool shed is about 400 yards from my house; I can keep my 30.06 groupings at 6" from 400 yards. He can do 5" groupings with his .308. We all have multi-use alarms systems (aka dogs) up here that alert us when someone is about a mile away.

A couple of days ago a guy was cruising close to our area and taking pictures of children. The alarms were barking like crazy and his suspicious behavior prompted two citizens to approach him. He had no reason to be here and in their judgment was not of good moral character. So they persuaded him, with the help of a 12 gauge, that he did not belong around here.

Crime runs high when people are scared and there is fear in the air. Criminals know this, they also know that if people take a proactive stance for protection of themselves and their property then the criminal will have a very poor success rate and crime rates will be low.

Criminals congregate in high crime areas because that is where they will be most successful and will blend in. They stay away from low crime areas with armed proactive citizens.

As I said, I hope the criminals are reading this - if you feel brave pay us a visit up here - we would loooooooooooove to have a talk with you.

I'm going to respond to this as politely as I can....

So, for instance, if a bunch of rival gangs lived near each other, just as long as they all had guns, that would somehow keep the crime low?

Please.

The fact that you boast about you and your neighbor's guns and dogs, screams to me that you and your neighbors are paranoid that something terrible is going to happen to you and/or your families, like you are just waiting for some lug to come along that you can shoot, to fulfill some sort of macho prophecy.

I don't dispute the story about the weirdo taking pictures, but there are other ways to handle that.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Crime runs high when people are scared and there is fear in the air.

You sir, must live like a man in fear, otherwise there would be no need for the guns and the dogs, and you could simply live your life not having to constantly look over your shoulder (or listen to the dogs) to assure yourself that you are not in imminent danger.

I was in a fairly new suburban area the other day, to drop off some computer parts to a technician. Kids were out playing on a bright sunny day. Parents were in their yards glaring at me as I passed. I could feel the paranoia in the air. I pulled up to the house, and the tech's little girl (about 9 years old) went freakishly running inside. I spoke with the technician's wife (he was not home yet) and she said that her daughter came running inside because a stranger pulled up to the curb. I left the parts and went back to my car, but had some paperwork to finish up first, that I completed on the roof of my car (it only took about 30 seconds). At this point the tech pulled up behind me, glared at me, and asked me "what the hell I was doing at his house", and after I told him why, he quieted up. He knew previously that I was coming, so he couldn't have simply assumed that's who I was?

You see, I tell this story because I would never want to live like that. I let my kids play outside and don't instill the fear of "bad people" into them constantly. I don't need guns or dogs to protect my home, I'd rather not live behind an iron curtain. I worry about the pizza men, newspaper delivery people, other visitors, etc, to your neighborhood. If they don't "look right", or "look like they are up to no good", they might politely get a gun pointed in their face.

I was "up north" early this morning, in a neighborhood, for work purposes. I think I may have "dodged a bullet".

[RetiredChef]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I'm going to respond to this as politely as I can....

So, for instance, if a bunch of rival gangs lived near each other, just as long as they all had guns, that would somehow keep the crime low?

I will respond as politely as I can, but in all honesty you are being asinine.

Do you honestly not see the difference between a gang full of gun-toting thugs and my 78 year old neighbor who loves to hunt and fish and has very keen eyesight and steady hands?

Here I'll spell it out for you

gangs = crime.

Rival Gangs = much more crime and drive-by's

78 year old Widower who lives alone with a 9 pound Pomeranian = a senior citizen who shuffles when he walks

Rival seniors = stories about enlarged prostrates.

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

The fact that you boast about you and your neighbor's guns and dogs, screams to me that you and your neighbors are paranoid that something terrible is going to happen to you and/or your families, like you are just waiting for some lug to come along that you can shoot, to fulfill some sort of macho prophecy.

OH DEAR - OH DEAR, some pent up anger you have, I suggest gun ownership might not be a good thing for you.

My wife has always owned a dog(s) and she loves her Dachshund and Mini-pin. Just fyi, our 2 ankle-biter's and my neighbors 1 angle-biter ALL Together sopping wet on a scale weigh about 35 lbs,

Perhaps if we lived in fear we might consider larger dogs.

Guns on the other hand are a fact of life. If you own them, know how to use them and handle them properly then so be it. The last thing anyone would want to do is take another person's life. Your characterization off gun & dog owners is so completely off base one has to wonder about your ability to think things through clearly. If every gun owner is " just waiting for some lug to come along that you can shoot" then multiple shootings would happen hourly throughout this country.

Since this doesn't happen your extreme hyperbole is farcical.

I have said it here before, Spokane is about as wild as a petting zoo. I used to have a CCW and carried in LA but I don't here - no need.

I don't live in fear sir, if I did I would carry and by a bigger dog , alarm my house and lock the doors at night but I don't.

However, I do live in REALITY!

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I don't dispute the story about the weirdo taking pictures, but there are other ways to handle that.

Such as ???????

Call the police!

They did and were congratulated by the police for doing what citizens should have done. The police received the complaint, got a license number and followed up, this is how a community and police should work together.

The police cannot be everywhere at once and the first line of defense is a proactive citizenry. Ask the police, they will tell you this also.

Since you didn't give any example of how to handle this we can presume that you would be the one in fear in this situation, barricading yourself in the house, dialing 911 and hoping the police show up in time.

Or worse would you ignore or not even see it - oblivious to a potential child stalker, would your child walk up to this person and jump in the car with them?

One must wonder.

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

You sir, must live like a man in fear, otherwise there would be no need for the guns and the dogs,

REALLY

So everyone who owns a gun

OR

a dog <gasp>

lives in fear?


[oh crap, we just got back from dinner and I didn't lock the house <again> I better get out the flame-thrower, a couple of AR-15's and sweep the house. If I hear anything creak or see movement I'll just blast away, let's hope my wife doesn't walk around upstairs, cause I'll unload the 12 gauge through the ceiling.

Stand by please - operation Code Red Clean House Sweep is about to commence - please stand by.

Gosh Darn it David, the dog sleeping of the couch moved and I couldn't control myself, I blasted off 15 rounds at her with the .45, would have done more, but the gun jammed when I dropped the grenade pin into the slide. Anyhow, let's all give a moment of silence for our poor little Dachshund, Jewel-e-Bink's, not much of her left, silly dog she didn't have her custom tailored bullet-proof Kevlar doggy vest on. ]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

you could simply live your life not having to constantly look over your shoulder (or listen to the dogs) to assure yourself that you are not in imminent danger.

ARE YOU GOD?????? - If you are tell Jewel-e-Binks I love her and I'm sorry and the next custom Kimber I get I'm calling it Jewels after her.

Anyhow, You have a very arrogant omniscient type attitude, you don't know me or how I feel, think or react. If you met me you would be very surprised.

I'm sorry you seem to have a hatred of dogs, maybe knowing that I just blasted one of our vicious ankle biters to smithereens might make you happy, but when a dog barks to announce a visitor most people actually look to see who it is. We don't own our dogs so that we have an alarm, or smelly little turds in the back-yard, my wife owns them because she loves animals. We also have 2 cats, fish, goats, chickens (those are for eggs) horses, and currently two wild birds that my wife, Ms. Doolittle is nursing back to health.

David I've said before, there is no real crime in Spokane, so there is minimal real danger. But I will tell you this, if someone comes out of the shadows behind me I don't cower in fear, I do look and I let them know that I am there and sizing them up.

Again that's just being safe and realistic.

No one should give in to their fears and cower in the corner hoping everything will be just fine, take a glance behind to see who it is, be proactive, it might help you one day.

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

You see, I tell this story because I would never want to live like that. I let my kids play outside and don't instill the fear of "bad people" into them constantly.

I understand, you seem to be very judgmental and have a very negative attitude towards other people, at least dog and/or gun owners.

Do you know the history of this family.
Do you know if they have been a victim of a crime?
Maybe they had two children but one was abducted?
Maybe they had a close friend of the family have a bad situation and it worried them?

I'll let you talk to my wife's friend. Their 8 year-old daughter disappeared from their front yard - 11 years ago. They never heard from her again.
To this day they have a hard time trusting anyone - I bet you would too if this nightmare ever happened to you.

David did you know that if you live your entire life in the US you have a 83% chance of being a victim of violent crime. Those are not good statistics.

I don't live in fear - I do live in REALITY!

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I don't need guns or dogs to protect my home,

http://www.10news.com/news/13266616/detail.html?rss=sand&psp=news

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/barstow-12856-homeowner-kills.html

You can google many others just like those above, home-owners fighting back and defending themselves against armed invaders.

Or you you can read the statistics of people with your mentality.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-cerritos-deadly-home-invasion,0,665053.story

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13736066/detail.html

I don't live in fear - I do live in REALITY!

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I worry about the pizza men, newspaper delivery people, other visitors, etc, to your neighborhood. If they don't "look right", or "look like they are up to no good", they might politely get a gun pointed in their face.

Tsk Tsk David, your being asinine again, pulling a gun on a person is a crime - how often do you hear of that being done?

Seriously - you are so far off the reality train that I think it is you that lives in fear and paranoia or extreme denial.

Have a good Night, I've to go, I take the 2300 - 0300 night watch shift in the camouflaged 2" steel fortified gun tower. I hope my wife hasn't used to much of the .50 cal ammunition up, it's a pain hauling cases of that up to the top of the tower, but when she sees movement in her night-vision goggles she just can't contain herself. <Blam> <Blam, Blam, Blam> Oh well, you know women, itchy trigger fingers - god bless em.

Ciao David,

Well be looking out for ya!

[skinem]

Originally Posted by chiaroscuro

Sometimes I hope criminals are not patrolling the city-data forums and reading this stuff.

Chef isn't telling anyone anything that the criminals don't already know.

Chef, that was beautiful! ( I really enjoyed the "rival seniors=stories about enlarged prostates"...) I'd give you rep points, but I gotta spread some first...

I like DavidAguilar's posts that I've read, but, I gotta agree with you on this one.

[fy10fyr]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

The police cannot be everywhere at once and the first line of defense is a proactive citizenry. Ask the police, they will tell you this also.

As the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away."

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I will respond as politely as I can, but in all honesty you are being asinine.

Do you honestly not see the difference between a gang full of gun-toting thugs and my 78 year old neighbor who loves to hunt and fish and has very keen eyesight and steady hands?

Here I'll spell it out for you

gangs = crime.

Rival Gangs = much more crime and drive-by's

78 year old Widower who lives alone with a 9 pound Pomeranian = a senior citizen who shuffles when he walks

Rival seniors = stories about enlarged prostrates.

Your original post was extremely vague. Nowhere did you specify within your "Most people around me are armed - hence the low crime rate." comment that they had to be (or were) seniors with Pomeranians.

I was simply challenging you to defend your vague comment.

How old was that guy that shot and killed the security guard in DC a few weeks ago? I wonder if he had a Pomeranian, I'll bet he loved to hunt and fish too (Von Brunn lived in Hayden Lake, ID for a time). I'm just mentioning this for argument's sake.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

OH DEAR - OH DEAR, some pent up anger you have, I suggest gun ownership might not be a good thing for you.

You are completely right, gun ownership is not for me -- I don't feel the need.

Again, nowhere did you say your dogs were ankle biters. Your original post did not imply that.

You are right, if you did live in fear (apparently you do not) you would have big mean dogs.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Guns on the other hand are a fact of life. If you own them, know how to use them and handle them properly then so be it. The last thing anyone would want to do is take another person's life. Your characterization off gun & dog owners is so completely off base one has to wonder about your ability to think things through clearly. If every gun owner is " just waiting for some lug to come along that you can shoot" then multiple shootings would happen hourly throughout this country.

I have nothing against guns or dogs. I have fired a gun, and have owned dogs. Your boastfulness in the previous post, challenging the criminals "to come have a talk with you" is trying to prove what? You have guns and will use them to protect your neighborhood, and will shoot if necessary. Why the need to prove that?

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I have said it here before, Spokane is about as wild as a petting zoo. I used to have a CCW and carried in LA but I don't here - no need.

I completely, 100% agree with the bold comment.

I am a former Southern Californian, like yourself, and I obviously didn't carry. May I ask, just what the need was for carrying in LA? Surely there are many people in LA that don't. I'm not trying to fight here, I just want a clarification.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I don't live in fear sir, if I did I would carry and by a bigger dog , alarm my house and lock the doors at night but I don't.

That's great to hear.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Call the police!

They did and were congratulated by the police for doing what citizens should have done. The police received the complaint, got a license number and followed up, this is how a community and police should work together.

The police cannot be everywhere at once and the first line of defense is a proactive citizenry. Ask the police, they will tell you this also.

My hope is that flashing a 12-gauge isn't the only way to handle this situation.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Or worse would you ignore or not even see it - oblivious to a potential child stalker, would your child walk up to this person and jump in the car with them?

One must wonder.

Reality teaches me this.

These are from WebMD:
My child has a 1 in 600,000 chance of being abducted by somebody that is not a friend or family member. I like those odds. That would be like Seattle being entirely children, and only 1 was going to be abducted in a year. I can keep an eye on friends and family members.

I hate to think about this, but of the 1/600,000 that is abducted, that child has a 1/1,500,000 chance of being murdered. That's the entire state of Idaho.

(WebMD) The odds of a child dying is 2 X more likely from influenza or pneumonia, 4 X more likely from heart disease, 17 X more likely from suicide, 20 X more likely from playing youth football, 30 X more likely as a pedestrian in a car accident, 100 X more likely from a car accident. The odds of being struck by lightning are 1 in 240,000.

So perhaps I shouldn't let my children play football, walk, or ride in a car.

I shouldn't even let them play outside because they may get struck by lightning. My child getting struck by lightning is more likely than him getting abducted!

I have taught my children what to do, and what not to do. I watch them when they play outside, and if a stranger were to walk by and seem a little too interested in my kids, I would confront him/her and give them the riot act, much like your neighbors did, only I would do it without the 12-gauge.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

REALLY

So everyone who owns a gun

OR

a dog <gasp>

lives in fear?

No, I didn't say everyone, not even most. Few. Those that can own a gun and not need to boast about it and what they can do with it (i.e. your previous post) are fine in my book, you have assured me that you aren't one of those people, so you are as well, now that you've made yourself more clear.

Hunt, shoot clay pigeons, shoot at targets all you want. The latter two are quite fun (I've never been hunting).

Your skits were quite entertaining, I like the product placement.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Anyhow, You have a very arrogant omniscient type attitude, you don't know me or how I feel, think or react. If you met me you would be very surprised.

You're right, I don't know you, and would hope I'd be very surprised. What I know of you here on C-D, I am quite impressed with, it was just that one post that got me.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I'm sorry you seem to have a hatred of dogs, maybe knowing that I just blasted one of our vicious ankle biters to smithereens might make you happy, but when a dog barks to announce a visitor most people actually look to see who it is. We don't own our dogs so that we have an alarm, or smelly little turds in the back-yard, my wife owns them because she loves animals. We also have 2 cats, fish, goats, chickens (those are for eggs) horses, and currently two wild birds that my wife, Ms. Doolittle is nursing back to health.

David I've said before, there is no real crime in Spokane, so there is minimal real danger. But I will tell you this, if someone comes out of the shadows behind me I don't cower in fear, I do look and I let them know that I am there and sizing them up.

Again that's just being safe and realistic.

No one should give in to their fears and cower in the corner hoping everything will be just fine, take a glance behind to see who it is, be proactive, it might help you one day.

I don't hate dogs, I just would rather not own one. We have one cat, and she's enough for me.

My approach to things would be more of a passive pro-activity compared to yours, but your way is fine too.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I understand, you seem to be very judgmental and have a very negative attitude towards other people, at least dog and/or gun owners.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Do you know the history of this family.
Do you know if they have been a victim of a crime?
Maybe they had two children but one was abducted?
Maybe they had a close friend of the family have a bad situation and it worried them?

No. No. Perhaps.

If I got to choose what kind of house I was going to, it wouldn't be one where the people behaved like that, that's all. Most people aren't like that. I just hope their behavior is warranted, they might consider the people they might be offending -- someone who is only doing his job (me).

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

I'll let you talk to my wife's friend. Their 8 year-old daughter disappeared from their front yard - 11 years ago. They never heard from her again.
To this day they have a hard time trusting anyone - I bet you would too if this nightmare ever happened to you.

I feel for your wife's friends family.

I lost my daughter to cancer a little over a year ago. No worrying or prevention in the world would have kept her safe from it -- that experience has helped shaped my views quite a bit.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

David did you know that if you live your entire life in the US you have a 83% chance of being a victim of violent crime. Those are not good statistics.

I don't live in fear - I do live in REALITY!

I have and plan on living my entire life in the US. Violent crime means murder, rape, robbery and assault, right?

I've already been a victim of robbery and assault. If you can, could you cite your source on this, I'd like to read further.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

http://www.10news.com/news/13266616/detail.html?rss=sand&psp=news

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/barstow-12856-homeowner-kills.html

You can google many others just like those above, home-owners fighting back and defending themselves against armed invaders.

Or you you can read the statistics of people with your mentality.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-cerritos-deadly-home-invasion,0,665053.story

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13736066/detail.html

I don't live in fear - I do live in REALITY!

I appreciate the links, there were two "Make my day" defenses in Colorado Springs within the past year.

I think the likelihood of being a victim of home invasion is rather low, I don't have anything anybody would want anyway, and I try my best not to tick anybody off.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Tsk Tsk David, your being asinine again, pulling a gun on a person is a crime - how often do you hear of that being done?

Hmmm, let me ask myself.

I had a gun pulled on me when I was delivering pizza in Ridgecrest, CA. The guy was mad that I pulled open his screen to knock on his door (he had no doorbell, and he didn't hear my knocks on the house). He paid for his pizza and I bailed to the police station.

The cops went to his house, and I never learned what the end result was, except that he wasn't allowed to order pizza from us anymore.

I also had a knife pulled on me while working the graveyard shift at a Denny's in Corona, CA. In an unrelated event, the front of the store was sprayed with bullets during a fight. I "cowardly" crawled into the store room (some customers ran to the store room and the walk-in fridge and freezer) and called the police.

Originally Posted by RetiredChef

Seriously - you are so far off the reality train that I think it is you that lives in fear and paranoia or extreme denial.

Ummm, no.

My reality is simply different from yours, and the way we perceive reality is different as well.

I wish you well.

[Deena160]

Hunt, shoot clay pigeons, shoot at targets all you want.

That sounds like what an anti-gun politician would say. The Second Amendment isn't about hunting or target shooting.

(Mr. Deena160)

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by Deena160

That sounds like what an anti-gun politician would say. The Second Amendment isn't about hunting or target shooting.

(Mr. Deena160)

Yes, the Second Amendment is about keeping guns for protection, self-defense, what have you.

I thought I stated my case on the issue well enough. I didn't grow up with guns in the household, I did not grow up shooting guns, wanting guns, or feeling the need to own a gun. I don't feel I need one, I'm not expecting a home invasion, nor am I expecting to need one for public (or private) defense (i.e., I don't expect a genocide, riot, or evil invaders to show up outside my window -- I live in Spokane for goodness sakes'), nor do I shoot for sport.

I have no problem with people owning guns, just as long as it is not pointed in my face. There are people out there that have no business owning guns, yet they are definitely the distinct and vast minority.

"The right of me, to not want to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."