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True, dogs don't have a choice because they are animals. But I am not debating the choice issue. I am questioning the legality issue. Just because a person chooses to get into the ring and fight, thus risking life and limb, that doesn't make it right from a legal stand point. In the same way that LAWS are in place to prevent dogs from fighting, why isn't it against the law for humans to fight. That's my point. Illegal fighting should be illegal fighting be it by dogs or humans.
So, based upon your answer, are you saying that it is ok for humans to fight and kill each other because they choose to?
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True, dogs don't have a choice because they are animals. But I am not debating the choice issue. I am questioning the legality issue.
You can't not debate the choice issue when it comes to this. One of the main reasons it is illegal is the choice issue, so how does that not matter?
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So, based upon your answer, are you saying that it is ok for humans to fight and kill each other because they choose to?
That makes no sense at all. No one said that dogs should be allowed to kill each other if they could choose to, so why would you bring up a human being able to kill someone? Boxers, MMA fighters, UFC fighters, Kick Boxers, etc, etc, don't fight to kill, and again, they choose to do what they do. Dogs are forced to fight to the death, they have no options, and if they don't get killed in the pit, they will either die a slow miserable death from their wounds or they will be tortured and killed by their owners. I think I already said this, but when people train to fight, they train correctly and in a safe, healthy way. No one beats them, tortures them or forces them to do anything. Not to mention, these fighters get paid! When dogs are forced to fight their owners will severely abuse and neglect them to make them aggressive. They will starve the dogs, beat them, chain them up out in the weather to die, or almost die. They will tie huge weights around their necks that are hanging off of huge chains that can very easily become embedded in the dogs neck, they will tease them with food and then beat them if they try to get the food and beat them if they don't try to get the food, they will pour acid all over the dogs, etc. And if the dog loses a fight, refuses to fight or doesn't fight the way the owner wants them to, they will beat the dogs, drownd them, electrocute them, etc.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, right? Well, here are some dogs that were forced to fight..
Here's a poem that I just found about dog fighting, does this sound like anything a Boxer, UFC fighter or Kick Boxer has to go through?
Quote:
Crucify Me
Fight me, deny me, and crucify me,
My sins are yours, they're not mine.
You make me what I am, evil at your command.
You send me to meet my challenger, whatever it may be.
I risk my life to line your pockets for nothing but pain and agony.
Three feet of chain with nowhere to go, there's not much here to see.
No time to play, its work, work, work, that's how life is for me.
Run the treadmill. Pull the blocks and hang there from the tree.
If my ribs feel a little thick, then not much food for me.
I'm in tip top shape, a muscle bound freak, with all the attitude I need.
I've got gameness several generations back. You should see my pedigree!
Pump me up! Hype me up! Throw me some bait! How about that young pup?
Watch me rip his eyeballs out; I need the taste of blood.
I've been hit. I've been beat. I've been left to die in the ring.
I've been sewed up! I've been ripped open and I've had several bones
broken!
I've scratched when I couldn't stand and I've stood up when I
couldn't scratch!
I've killed a few dogs and I've nearly died when I've met my
match!
Fight me, deny me, and crucify me,
My sins are yours, they're not mine.
You make me what I am, evil at your command.
You send me to meet my challenger, whatever it may be.
I risk my life to line your pockets for nothing but pain and agony.
You find amusement at my torn, hanging skin
and just when my body heals, you make me do it again.
Why couldn't I have been a happy dog with a master who shared some love?
Not some twisted psychopath, who owes his life to drugs.
I do this evil to earn my keep. Somehow, I must be fed.
The men in suits, they point at me and say they want me dead.
Even the lucky ones in happy homes who have never felt my pain,
must face the executioners because they bear my name.
Fight me, deny me, and crucify me,
My sins are yours, they're not mine.
You make me what I am, evil at your command.
You send me to meet my challenger, whatever it may be.
I risk my life to line your pockets for nothing but pain and agony.
I've grown too old now to fight in your ring
You've left me no chance, to ever be free
I lay in the darkness, no one at my side
my last fight I lost, my eyes no longer can see
this is what you have done, do you not feel shame?
I can no longer walk, run or play
you have a new puppy now, the one to take my place
the cold and darkness closing now, you have nothing to say?
I lay here in pain and my own blood
I still believe that you love me and I try to stay awake
But you kick me and wish me dead then tell them to tie the bag
The darkness is here now; I hope they catch you, for the new puppy's sake
Fight me, deny me, and crucify me,
My sins are yours, they're not mine.
You make me what I am, evil at your command.
You send me to meet my challenger, whatever it may be.
I risk my life to line your pockets for nothing but pain and agony.
-Alan W Joslin
There is no way you can compare that, to someone choosing to fight, in a controlled situation, to make a good living.
Last edited by PitBullMommie1206; 12-24-2007 at 10:14 PM..
What breed, specifically, do you own, APBT, AmStaff or Staffie? My husband and I own three amazing APBTs, and I agree with you about never putting our dogs through any of this crap. We too have worked very hard to socialize our dogs to combat the animal aggression. I think that any responsible "pit bull" owner will, or should, just acknowledge what these breeds were originally bred for, make sure to properly socialize, train and control their dog, know their dog and what triggers him or her, and avoid potentially dangerous situations. But, not all "pit bulls" are aggressive. If a "pit bull" is properly bred and socialized starting at a young age, there really shouldn't be any serious problems with animal aggression. None of our dogs are human aggressive in the least, and none of them are dog aggressive. Because of their breeds history and what they were bred for, we are very cautious and stay prepared for anything, even though we have never had a problem. But just because "pit bulls" were originally bred to be animal aggressive doesn't mean they all will be. Again, we own three APBTs, and my father, my sister, my mother-in-law, my cousin, my best friend and her mother, and several good friends of ours all own APBTs as well. Not one is human or animal aggressive.
Mine's an APBT/Staffordshire named Raven. I too have worked to socialize her to all kinds of animals, people, and situations so much so that she will let my roommates' 10 lb cat push her around. I know full well that not all pits are animal aggressive but in my earlier posts I was playing devil's advocate and as a result was warned for "trolling." As far as human aggression goes she is all bark and no bite, she will bark at strangers outside as if she would kill them but a few months ago when my house was broken into she didn't do anything, the police officer even made a comment about her not earning her keep. Like you I also have many friends/family members with APBT's and from my overall experience with the breed I can't think of any better dogs. Their intelligence, gameness and eagerness to please makes them highly trainable, I have taught Raven tricks in as little as a few hours. But as previously stated owners must realize what their dogs are and work that much harder to socialize them and weed out the aggressive tendencies.
Mine's an APBT/Staffordshire named Raven. I too have worked to socialize her to all kinds of animals, people, and situations so much so that she will let my roommates' 10 lb cat push her around. I know full well that not all pits are animal aggressive but in my earlier posts I was playing devil's advocate and as a result was warned for "trolling." As far as human aggression goes she is all bark and no bite, she will bark at strangers outside as if she would kill them but a few months ago when my house was broken into she didn't do anything, the police officer even made a comment about her not earning her keep. Like you I also have many friends/family members with APBT's and from my overall experience with the breed I can't think of any better dogs. Their intelligence, gameness and eagerness to please makes them highly trainable, I have taught Raven tricks in as little as a few hours. But as previously stated owners must realize what their dogs are and work that much harder to socialize them and weed out the aggressive tendencies.
Yeah, our three are all bark as well! lol! When someone comes to the door, especially if it's a man they have never met, they act vicious! The way they bark really is kind of scary, but as soon as that door opens they are like teddy bears! lol! I love that they are like that! We shouldn't have to worry about anyone breaking into our home. I mean, I would assume most people would just walk away after seeing and hearing three barking "pit bulls". But at the same time, we don't have to worry about our dogs biting or attacking someone that comes to our home, unless that person is a real threat to us of course. Another thing that I LOVE about APBTs, is while they really don't make good guard dogs, they will protect you with their life if it's needed. Our male, Brooklyn, even tried to protect me from my husband one day a while back! It's a long story, but my husband was really mad about something and he was kind of taking it out on me a bit. He was standing really close to me and instead of just telling me what was going on, he was yelling about it. I guess Brooklyn could sense how mad my husband was (even though he wasn't really mad at me), and Brooklyn wasn't happy about it. He didn't do anything wrong, but he did get right in front of me and bark at my husband until he calmed down! lol! I know that probably sounds bad, and I guess it is, but if I know that my dog will protect me from his other owner, I shouldn't have anything to worry about! I'm the kind of person that wouldn't let my dog protect me though, or at least not get hurt protecting me. It would absolutely kill me to know that one of my dogs got hurt or killed protecting me. I think it would just be instinct to protect them, you know? But yeah, our dogs are all bark and no bite as well!
It's funny that you brought up your dog letting a cat push it around! lol! Our dogs aren't ever around cats because my husband is allergic to them, but the last time Jayda (our 1 year 2 month old female) to the vet, she was playing with a cat while I was paying! Honestly, I was shocked! Our dogs are very well socialized, they love other dogs and they have been around cats as much as they could be, but because of my husband, that wasn't very often. Jayda was kind of treating the cat like a puppy. The cat's owner, a very sweet older lady, got on the ground and was talking to Jayda about her cat! lol! It was too funny! The lady kept asking Jayda what it was and trying to get them to play. She loved Jayda, I have never seen a complete stranger just get on the ground with one of my dogs like that. After a couple minutes the lady told me that Jayda was beautiful and she asked what breed she was. When I told her that she's an APBT the lady was really surprised, but it didn't seem to change her mind about Jayda, like it normally does with most people, regardless of how friendly our dogs are, because she was still on the floor with her! lol!
Well put, I feel like too many people buy into the whole, "Pit Bulls are not to be trusted no matter what," crowd and it is really a shame because of how good the breed is. I'm just dreading that Nashville will enact BSL and really mess things up for me. They are already going down that road, as it is now I can't take Raven to the Dog Park because she is a "breed resembling a pit bull,"(actual sign at the park). I can sense that people are starting to support the BSL way of thinking ever since the media around here jumped on a story about a lady getting mauled by some dogs that ended up not even being pits but when the story ran guess what kind of dog was pictured right next to it. It's stuff like that that makes people so distrustful of the breed and all because some reporter thought it would be more sensational if he implies that a pit bull did it.
The other thing that irks me is people who claim to be educated on the matter and cite bite statistics. All it takes is some minor research to call into question the validity of these so called stats. These people believe that pitbulls make up an inordinate amount of the bite stats not realizing that they are the most unscientific stats ever. First there is no centralized system to keep track so there are no standards of practice, in other words what is called a Lab mix by one city could be called a pit bull in another because the police officer taking down the information doesn't know the difference. And for people who think that APBTs are easy to spot take this quiz Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull. This alone results in many false identifications therefore inflating the bite stats for the pit bull. Also most bite statistics list "pit bull type dogs," which includes Stafforshire Terriers, Presa Canarios, American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentinos, and even mastiffs sometimes. No other breed is multiple listed in such a way so obviously the bite stats will be disproportionally higher. Sorry for the length of the post but I am passionate about the subject and dislike ignorance. Punish the Deed not the Breed.
Because people can choose whether or not they want to hurt each other & be hurt. Dogs bred for fighting do not have a choice. Also if a human fighter loses a fight, he is not put to death. Losing fighting dogs usually are - in the most horrific ways.
People unlike dogs can make up their own minds about whether or not theyu want to fight eachother. Are you retarded? I hope Michael Vick gets tortured in jail like he tortured those dogs.
Whether you think that it's "wrong" morally for someone to get into a ring and fight another person is YOUR opinion. It's sanctioned because (most) people have the ability to choose for themselves what they wish to do. If you disagree, that's your position, but it's not something that should be imposed on others who wish to partake in the sport.
My personal opinion....People CHOOSE to fight--dogs do not, they are trained to fight. Dogs are often killed fighting, people are not!!! It's about "choice" and staying alive!!!! Most animals are totally innocent most people are not!
What I don't understand is why people are more concerned with dogs fighting than with the fact that millions of people go to bed hungry every night.
People are concerned with both. It just so happend that you are on a thread that has to do with "Dog Fighting".
Why dont you go and start a thread about "Hunger in the World" if thats what you are concerned with. I sure there are many more threads and discussions that have to do with world hunger than dog fighting.
YOU are the one who revived this YEAR OLD THREAD so you must have been searching for dog fighting!!!
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No one said that dogs should be allowed to kill each other if they could choose to, so why would you bring up a human being able to kill someone? Boxers, MMA fighters, UFC fighters, Kick Boxers, etc, etc, don't fight to kill, and again, they choose to do what they do. Dogs are forced to fight to the death, they have no options, and if they don't get killed in the pit, they will either die a slow miserable death from their wounds or they will be tortured and killed by their owners. I think I already said this, but when people train to fight, they train correctly and in a safe, healthy way. No one beats them, tortures them or forces them to do anything. Not to mention, these fighters get paid! 
Staffordshire Terrier/Pitbull
When someone comes to the door, especially if it's a man they have never met, they act vicious! 
Another thing that I LOVE about APBTs, is while they really don't make good guard dogs, they will protect you with their life if it's needed. Our male, Brooklyn, even tried to protect me from my husband one day a while back! It's a long story, but my husband was really mad about something and he was kind of taking it out on me a bit. He was standing really close to me and instead of just telling me what was going on, he was yelling about it. I guess Brooklyn could sense how mad my husband was (even though he wasn't really mad at me), and Brooklyn wasn't happy about it. He didn't do anything wrong, but he did get right in front of me and bark at my husband until he calmed down! lol! 
