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Old 11-05-2012, 04:32 PM
 
33,141 posts, read 39,090,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Jambo,

Are you just not reading what people are saying? It's way beyond the fact that he used steroids.
He was somewhat of a hero of mine, its tough to see him destroyed for just doing what every one else was doing.
Although the evidence looks compelling he still hasnt had a trial to confirm his guilt, and its kinda a shame for all those that benefited from his cancer program as that will probably disappear as well.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,197,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
He was somewhat of a hero of mine, its tough to see him destroyed for just doing what every one else was doing.
Although the evidence looks compelling he still hasnt had a trial to confirm his guilt, and its kinda a shame for all those that benefited from his cancer program as that will probably disappear as well.
You know, I can understand that. I know people who have fought, or have people close to them fight through cancer using Lance as inspiration. And thats good - the most important thing is they beat it, and nothing can change that.

And I also understand how those people can feel like their struggle seems marginalized when people attack Lance. But, I assure you, it's not, people like me who think Lance is a fraud, and probably a pretty bad person all around are still glad that people used him as inspiration to get healthy. But his time of looking like a hero, and profiting off his success are done.

People that overcame cancer deserve the credit themselves. If the yellow bracelet helped them, thats fine, but there are enough facts now to say that the empire was on a foundation of fraud.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,349 posts, read 16,519,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
He was somewhat of a hero of mine, its tough to see him destroyed for just doing what every one else was doing.
Although the evidence looks compelling he still hasnt had a trial to confirm his guilt, and its kinda a shame for all those that benefited from his cancer program as that will probably disappear as well.
As I said before: people are complex, not one dimensional. Lance is/was a great inspiration AND a fraud.
Nothing wrong with admiring him for the good things he did while reviling him for the bad things. See Joe Paterno.

Yes, it is ashame that this may negatively affect his foundation and the people who could've benefited from the work that they do but you need to lay the blame squarely on Lance's shoulders for that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 24,623,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Now that every one is happy about throwing Lance Armstrong under the bus maybe we can look for more American hero's to trash, how about that Michael Phelps? 22 Olympic medals? yeah right.doped all the way i say.
And how about that Tiger Woods? ya dont get muscle development like his by just playing golf, another candidate for being on the juice.
Actually looking up American sport heros on Google doesnt come up with much.

This it? American Athletic Heroes Page 1 | USA Hero
Just why do you think Phelps doped? US swimmers have almost no history of doping. There is absolutely zero evidence that Phelps, like almost every great American swimmer before him, doped.

East German swimmers? Yup. Chinese swimmers? Yup. Phelps? No.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:20 AM
 
33,141 posts, read 39,090,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Just why do you think Phelps doped? US swimmers have almost no history of doping. There is absolutely zero evidence that Phelps, like almost every great American swimmer before him, doped.

East German swimmers? Yup. Chinese swimmers? Yup. Phelps? No.
I was going on the same rational as many without a shred of evidence used on Armstrong over the years, he cant be that good with out doping..
I doubt Phelps is doping but with the same lack of evidence people had on Armstrong they were convinced he was doping. Phelps could easily garner the same suspicion .
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:22 AM
 
1,620 posts, read 4,202,734 times
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Before the USADA report, here is the evidence against Lance:

1) Tested positive for cortizone in 1999, was able to get a waiver from his doctor (later learned the waiver was a scam from one of his doping doctors).
2) He tested positive for EPO in the 2001 Tour de Suisse. Lance appealed to get it overturned by questioning the protocols of the testing.
3) His former teammate and friend Frankie Andreu and the friend's wife were deposed under oath that Lance admitted to them he took steriods.
4) His massage therapist was deposed under oath that Lance took EPO.
5) His former assistant sued Lance for breach of contract after he was fired after discovering steriods in a medicine cabinet at Lance's apartment.
6) His former teammate and friend Tyler Hamilton admitted that Lance took steroids, EPO, and did blood doping.
7) His former teammate and friend Floyd Landis admitted that Lance took steroids, EPO, and did blood doping.
8) All of his major rivals of his era were caught or connected with doping (Ullrich, Basso, Pantani, Contador, Vinokourov, etc.).
9) Lance was a larger rider that was a time trial specialist and destroyed in the field in the mountains where usually tiny, tiny little Spaniards or Colombians did well.
10) Lance was a prominent client of Dr. Michele Ferrari, a notorious doping doctor connected to Operation Puerto.
11) Lance attacked anyone who bashed Dr. Ferrari or questioned his links to him (i.e. Lemond or Bianchi).

Yes, you can individually challenge each and every one of them, and Lance did, until people like George Hincapie, Tom Danielson, Levi Leipheimer, Dave Zabriskie, Christian Vande Velde, and John Vaughters came forward and made the doubts that Lance brought up crumble.

According to Lance the only "shred of evidence" is positive tests (which he had two) and it was already proven in BALCO that they don't work that well (i.e. Marion Jones, another person never tested positive).

If you didn't at least have suspicions or worried that Lance was doping you were drinking the cool aid.

Here is the evidence or even rumors against Phelps:

crickets.

Oh wait, I forgot the Chinese coaches accused Phelps to make a point that their female swimmer wasn't doped despite the fact she swam the last leg of her race faster than the gold medal winning male swimmer.

Last edited by slim04; 11-09-2012 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:36 AM
 
6,981 posts, read 4,177,036 times
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Lance is being singled out like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens got singled out.......remember the rule of thumb, its ok to cheat as long as you're not great. Most average citizens couldnt name you ONE other bike racer. Lance Armstrong is the only guy most people have heard of in the cycling world, especially in America. Plenty of other cyclers cheated, but since they didnt actually win, they get a pass. Cheating is cheating whether you win or finish last, tough break to be the only guy singled out.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:21 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,048,183 times
Reputation: 17978
Who really cares this long after the events and considering he was the most test athlete of all time. just he said,she said. It was like being on trial and they were going to do what they wanted anyway.They had been after him like a witch hunt. He said to hell with this and stopped answering.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 11-15-2012 at 12:17 PM..
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:16 PM
JL
 
7,312 posts, read 11,480,745 times
Reputation: 7168
Looks like he might be coming clean after all!

Lance Armstrong said to be considering doping confession - San Jose Mercury News
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Greater NYC
2,857 posts, read 4,695,251 times
Reputation: 3751
From earlier today: USADA head: I got death threats during Armstrong probe - CBS News
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