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Old 12-22-2007, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
29,615 posts, read 65,640,395 times
Reputation: 15044

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There are now several very popular threads about what cities are deserving of a new sports franchise based upon rapidly-growing populations, corporate sponsorships, location, etc., but I'm curious to see what cities you think might surrender their teams in order to make way for the newbies (if any?) After all, if we were to just create all new sports franchises for every deserving city without relocating any others, we might run into a problem with certain sports being oversaturated with teams.

Here are my choices if a city had to be chosen to lose a franchise:

Buffalo: Buffalo is one of the few cities in this nation that has seen its metropolitan population nosedive for decades, and I fear that if this population decline doesn't reverse itself the Bills may someday pull out. The city of Buffalo alone isn't capable of supporting an NFL team; the fact that the Bills fan base expands into Rochester, NY, Syracuse, NY, Erie, PA (which also supports the Browns), and Hamilton, ON (which also supports the CFL) keeps it afloat.

Pittsburgh: Just like Buffalo, Pittsburgh's metropolitan population has been nosediving for decades. The Penguins threatened to pull out until Governor Rendell got down onto his knees and pledged hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new arena in order to entice them to stay. Both the Steelers and Pirates have great new riverfront stadiums with awesome skyline views, but if and when these stadiums become outdated, the metro's population may have continued to decline to the point where having three major-league teams is no longer viable---I can see the Pirates moving to another U.S. city at some point in the future. I think Pittsburgh has more potential than Buffalo to turn itself around though.

New Orleans: The city just hasn't been the same since Hurricane Katrina, and its population remains at only half of what it once was. Quality-of-life issues, namely crime, continue to be of concern here, and if the population never fully recovers the fan base might not as well. I can see either the Saints or Hornets making a move out of the city at some point in the future. If the Saints (NFL) ever moved, they'd likely head to either San Antonio or Los Angeles. I know there's been a large fervor as of late to rebuild the city, but I think many folks are now leery of living below sea level along the coast now that they see what a hurricane can do to their way of life.

Florida: The Sunshine State is oversaturated currently with professional sports teams. This state is home to the Dolphins, Heat, Magic, Marlins, Jaguars, Buccaneers, Panthers, Lightning, Rays, and I'm sure I'm missing others. Yes, the state is heavily-populated, but all of its cities are located within an easy drive of one another. Orlanda isn't far from Tampa, for example, so why duplicate sports teams? I'd be an advocate of leaving most teams in Miami and then merging the teams in Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville into "Florida" teams with one each for the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL---the MLB Florida Marlins would move from Miami to this region in the northern part of the state. Doing so would free up franchises for other deserving cities that are large yet very isolated from other teams (Omaha comes to mind).

Cincinnati or Cleveland: Columbus is the 15th-largest city in the United States, with a population of 733,203 in the city proper, yet it sits in the shadow of Cincinnati and Cleveland, which are only the 56th-largest and 33rd-largest cities in the nation respectively. Granted these two metropolitan areas are still larger than Columbus, but as both of these areas see slow growth while Columbus continues to boom, that will most certainly be changing. The only professional sports team in Columbus is the Blue Jackets (NHL). That needs to change. I would propose Cleveland and Cincinnati each surrendering one of their sports franchises and giving them to Columbus, which is more centrally located in the state anyways. If bad blood occurs, you can always call the new teams the "Ohio Bengals" or "Ohio Browns", for example to help ease the transition.
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Ne
884 posts, read 710,462 times
Reputation: 119
SWB,
Why don't you run for mayor here in Omaha and get us a pro team. No hockey though.
The only thing we have here is Creighton Basketball.
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Old 12-23-2007, 02:22 PM
T-8
 
Location: Southern Italy
23 posts, read 99,236 times
Reputation: 23
Hi guys, here's from Italy...
I'm really getting interested into this subjects: it's way strange for me, though I think I am the lone Italian guy who's tryin' to read quite all the newspapers lines conceirning pro teams relocation and expansion. Kinda crazy guy, you'll say...

New Orleans: this city ain't just gonna lose the Saints (to San Antonio, as it has been several times rumoured), but the Hornets too. New Orleans Arena is crowded every night 45-55 % (here in Italy we got two channels covering NBA matches - one of these offers NBA TV live broadcasting from 1 AM to 7 AM local time - and during a couple of games I've seen that plenty of seats were vacant), and I still keep on asking myself how could David Stern think to relocate the team from a middle-income and middle-life-quality-standards city (solding out Ford Center every night) to a quite invisible city, that nowadays is New Orleans. Neither 2007 NBA All-Star Weekend could help to raise Southern Louisians's head.
Several families can't make it due to (obvious) financial troubles: how can one think that a family decides to spend $100 to watch the game instead of buying new clothes, buying food or gasoline ?
Moreover, Louisiana has always been depicted to me as a football state: this means, in my opinion, that basketball couldn't have any way to make it, 'cause sport fans are nothing more than football fans.
Then, if david Stern is that thriving league manager the worldwide press says, why did he keep on with New Orleans, if he knew that NBA would have lost money in there ?
I hope New Orleans to raise again its head, but it will happen very slowly. It was an hurricane, not just brief rainfall, then let's give them 10 years at least to clean themselves up.

Jacksonville: sorry, I meant this post to be New Orleans only, but you mentioned Northern Florida and I got something to say about the Jaguars. Players are willing to get in trouble. In my opinion, one of the reasnons that could force you to such a stupid will is a boring and little city. You know, J'ville ain't that big, ain't that crowded. Miami is 5 hours (or more) driving southward. New Orleans, after Katrina, isn't just the same. Closest cities are Atlanta, Birmingham and Tampa, but none of them is worth the price. The Jaguars belong to the NFL, and the NFL is full of crazy players, unmarried guys looking for amusement and for funny ways to spend their money. If you're the manager of a NFL team based in Jacksonville, your players will smell the air of Miami, and being them forced to respect scheduled trainings and practices, flyin' to Miami could be just a far dream (it becomes reality only during post-season). It isn't the same thing as if you got a team in Phoenix, Seattle, Detroit or Green Bay, because the only air your players would smell there, it'd be their own shoes bad one !
Could be a stupid opinion, but it's mine. Then, call me stupid !

Post soon about my opinions !!
Best luck from Italy !!

>> fr.caste@libero.it

Last edited by Cornerguy1; 12-23-2007 at 08:18 PM.. Reason: links to blogs not permitted
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:36 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
357 posts, read 802,829 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
Cincinnati or Cleveland: Columbus is the 15th-largest city in the United States, with a population of 733,203 in the city proper, yet it sits in the shadow of Cincinnati and Cleveland, which are only the 56th-largest and 33rd-largest cities in the nation respectively. Granted these two metropolitan areas are still larger than Columbus, but as both of these areas see slow growth while Columbus continues to boom, that will most certainly be changing. The only professional sports team in Columbus is the Blue Jackets (NHL). That needs to change. I would propose Cleveland and Cincinnati each surrendering one of their sports franchises and giving them to Columbus, which is more centrally located in the state anyways. If bad blood occurs, you can always call the new teams the "Ohio Bengals" or "Ohio Browns", for example to help ease the transition.

The Cleveland Browns have too rich a history and tradition to "surrender" their franchise. If we dodged Art Modell (may the devil have his way with him forever and a day), we will certainly never give up the team to population density statistics... As for the other franchises, the Indians and Cavaliers combine with the Browns to create the reason that we are "the most tortured sports city" (ESPN) and also "the most loyal fans (http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/43.html#l - broken link)." There would be chaos in the city if such a thing were ever to transpire.

From my experience with Bengals fans, good luck getting them to part with their Who Dey.
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
854 posts, read 2,481,215 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
Florida: The Sunshine State is oversaturated currently with professional sports teams. This state is home to the Dolphins, Heat, Magic, Marlins, Jaguars, Buccaneers, Panthers, Lightning, Rays, and I'm sure I'm missing others. Yes, the state is heavily-populated, but all of its cities are located within an easy drive of one another. Orlanda isn't far from Tampa, for example, so why duplicate sports teams? I'd be an advocate of leaving most teams in Miami and then merging the teams in Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville into "Florida" teams with one each for the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL---the MLB Florida Marlins would move from Miami to this region in the northern part of the state. Doing so would free up franchises for other deserving cities that are large yet very isolated from other teams (Omaha comes to mind).
?!

Quote:
Yes, the state is heavily-populated, but all of its cities are located within an easy drive of one another.
That's not true. Miami/Tampa is about 3-4 hours, and Miami/Orlando is about 2.5-3 hours.

The only cities that are close to each other are Tampa and Orlando. Orlando has the NBA's Magic, Tampa has all the NHL, NFL, MLB teams.

If the Marlins get their new stadium approved they're likely to become the Miami Marlins. Other than that we have the Panthers, Dolphins and Heat.

Tallahassee doesn't have a professional team, and Jacksonville only has the Jaguars.

I don't think Florida has "too many" teams.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:53 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,896,672 times
Reputation: 8127
Minnesota Vikings
The Twins are getting a new stadium and the Minnesota Gophers are getting one also.

A couple weeks ago a representative from the NFL came to St Paul to plead the owners case for public financing of a new stadium and was given a flat "no" by the Governor.
This did not make big news in the papers, but it should have .
Sportswriters from the MPLS Tribune pointed out that the NFL represents the owners and they are not going to stand by and allow Minnesota politicians to say," you want it,you pay for it" when it comes to owners seeking public funding for NFL stadiums as this could set a precedent in the future.

I guess we will see.
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,113 posts, read 15,296,085 times
Reputation: 3661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
There are now several very popular threads about what cities are deserving of a new sports franchise based upon rapidly-growing populations, corporate sponsorships, location, etc., but I'm curious to see what cities you think might surrender their teams in order to make way for the newbies (if any?) After all, if we were to just create all new sports franchises for every deserving city without relocating any others, we might run into a problem with certain sports being oversaturated with teams.

Here are my choices if a city had to be chosen to lose a franchise:

Buffalo: Buffalo is one of the few cities in this nation that has seen its metropolitan population nosedive for decades, and I fear that if this population decline doesn't reverse itself the Bills may someday pull out. The city of Buffalo alone isn't capable of supporting an NFL team; the fact that the Bills fan base expands into Rochester, NY, Syracuse, NY, Erie, PA (which also supports the Browns), and Hamilton, ON (which also supports the CFL) keeps it afloat.

Pittsburgh: Just like Buffalo, Pittsburgh's metropolitan population has been nosediving for decades. The Penguins threatened to pull out until Governor Rendell got down onto his knees and pledged hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new arena in order to entice them to stay. Both the Steelers and Pirates have great new riverfront stadiums with awesome skyline views, but if and when these stadiums become outdated, the metro's population may have continued to decline to the point where having three major-league teams is no longer viable---I can see the Pirates moving to another U.S. city at some point in the future. I think Pittsburgh has more potential than Buffalo to turn itself around though.

New Orleans: The city just hasn't been the same since Hurricane Katrina, and its population remains at only half of what it once was. Quality-of-life issues, namely crime, continue to be of concern here, and if the population never fully recovers the fan base might not as well. I can see either the Saints or Hornets making a move out of the city at some point in the future. If the Saints (NFL) ever moved, they'd likely head to either San Antonio or Los Angeles. I know there's been a large fervor as of late to rebuild the city, but I think many folks are now leery of living below sea level along the coast now that they see what a hurricane can do to their way of life.

Florida: The Sunshine State is oversaturated currently with professional sports teams. This state is home to the Dolphins, Heat, Magic, Marlins, Jaguars, Buccaneers, Panthers, Lightning, Rays, and I'm sure I'm missing others. Yes, the state is heavily-populated, but all of its cities are located within an easy drive of one another. Orlanda isn't far from Tampa, for example, so why duplicate sports teams? I'd be an advocate of leaving most teams in Miami and then merging the teams in Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville into "Florida" teams with one each for the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL---the MLB Florida Marlins would move from Miami to this region in the northern part of the state. Doing so would free up franchises for other deserving cities that are large yet very isolated from other teams (Omaha comes to mind).

Cincinnati or Cleveland: Columbus is the 15th-largest city in the United States, with a population of 733,203 in the city proper, yet it sits in the shadow of Cincinnati and Cleveland, which are only the 56th-largest and 33rd-largest cities in the nation respectively. Granted these two metropolitan areas are still larger than Columbus, but as both of these areas see slow growth while Columbus continues to boom, that will most certainly be changing. The only professional sports team in Columbus is the Blue Jackets (NHL). That needs to change. I would propose Cleveland and Cincinnati each surrendering one of their sports franchises and giving them to Columbus, which is more centrally located in the state anyways. If bad blood occurs, you can always call the new teams the "Ohio Bengals" or "Ohio Browns", for example to help ease the transition.
SWB, I think your reasons for "losing" a franchise is way off base.

Look at LA, it has a huge population base but no NFL franchise. It doesn't have to do w/the population, there are plenty of franchises that have low population bases (ie Green Bay) but would you ever think the Packers would move?

The owner of the franchise is the main reason where a franchise resides. Look at the Jets a couple of years ago. Woody Johnson COULD'VE moved the franchise to LA during that whole West Side Stadium fiasco if he really wanted to.

I think you have to look at the circumstances surrounding the owner...population to me is not a valid reason at all.

A biggie you haven't named might surprise you. Look at Charlotte. Its NBA franchise is down in the dumps. You never hear sports talk radio mention them. I would say the Hurricanes get more press which is pathetic. Popluation base is growing rapidly, but most residents are transplants and haven't taken to the Bobcats. It doesn't help that they stink also. Attendance is lousy overall (I think 25th overall). If the franchise continues to post losing or mediocre records into the forseeable future, watch out.
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:07 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
357 posts, read 802,829 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
A biggie you haven't named might surprise you. Look at Charlotte. Its NBA franchise is down in the dumps. You never hear sports talk radio mention them. I would say the Hurricanes get more press which is pathetic. Popluation base is growing rapidly, but most residents are transplants and haven't taken to the Bobcats. It doesn't help that they stink also.

They had a clip during the Cavs game today about MJ working with the Bobcats one-on-one to try to get the team into shape. It was pretty funny watching Jordan school these current pros.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,113 posts, read 15,296,085 times
Reputation: 3661
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiU08 View Post
They had a clip during the Cavs game today about MJ working with the Bobcats one-on-one to try to get the team into shape. It was pretty funny watching Jordan school these current pros.
Yeah, he did that about a week ago...I'll tell ya he can still play...

Just a side note (don't want to hijack thread), they have some decent players, but no real big man...as John Fox would say "we are who we are"...
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs,CO
2,368 posts, read 6,650,732 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
There are now several very popular threads about what cities are deserving of a new sports franchise based upon rapidly-growing populations, corporate sponsorships, location, etc., but I'm curious to see what cities you think might surrender their teams in order to make way for the newbies (if any?) After all, if we were to just create all new sports franchises for every deserving city without relocating any others, we might run into a problem with certain sports being oversaturated with teams.

Here are my choices if a city had to be chosen to lose a franchise:

Buffalo: Buffalo is one of the few cities in this nation that has seen its metropolitan population nosedive for decades, and I fear that if this population decline doesn't reverse itself the Bills may someday pull out. The city of Buffalo alone isn't capable of supporting an NFL team; the fact that the Bills fan base expands into Rochester, NY, Syracuse, NY, Erie, PA (which also supports the Browns), and Hamilton, ON (which also supports the CFL) keeps it afloat.

Pittsburgh: Just like Buffalo, Pittsburgh's metropolitan population has been nosediving for decades. The Penguins threatened to pull out until Governor Rendell got down onto his knees and pledged hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new arena in order to entice them to stay. Both the Steelers and Pirates have great new riverfront stadiums with awesome skyline views, but if and when these stadiums become outdated, the metro's population may have continued to decline to the point where having three major-league teams is no longer viable---I can see the Pirates moving to another U.S. city at some point in the future. I think Pittsburgh has more potential than Buffalo to turn itself around though.

New Orleans: The city just hasn't been the same since Hurricane Katrina, and its population remains at only half of what it once was. Quality-of-life issues, namely crime, continue to be of concern here, and if the population never fully recovers the fan base might not as well. I can see either the Saints or Hornets making a move out of the city at some point in the future. If the Saints (NFL) ever moved, they'd likely head to either San Antonio or Los Angeles. I know there's been a large fervor as of late to rebuild the city, but I think many folks are now leery of living below sea level along the coast now that they see what a hurricane can do to their way of life.

Florida: The Sunshine State is oversaturated currently with professional sports teams. This state is home to the Dolphins, Heat, Magic, Marlins, Jaguars, Buccaneers, Panthers, Lightning, Rays, and I'm sure I'm missing others. Yes, the state is heavily-populated, but all of its cities are located within an easy drive of one another. Orlanda isn't far from Tampa, for example, so why duplicate sports teams? I'd be an advocate of leaving most teams in Miami and then merging the teams in Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville into "Florida" teams with one each for the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL---the MLB Florida Marlins would move from Miami to this region in the northern part of the state. Doing so would free up franchises for other deserving cities that are large yet very isolated from other teams (Omaha comes to mind).

Cincinnati or Cleveland: Columbus is the 15th-largest city in the United States, with a population of 733,203 in the city proper, yet it sits in the shadow of Cincinnati and Cleveland, which are only the 56th-largest and 33rd-largest cities in the nation respectively. Granted these two metropolitan areas are still larger than Columbus, but as both of these areas see slow growth while Columbus continues to boom, that will most certainly be changing. The only professional sports team in Columbus is the Blue Jackets (NHL). That needs to change. I would propose Cleveland and Cincinnati each surrendering one of their sports franchises and giving them to Columbus, which is more centrally located in the state anyways. If bad blood occurs, you can always call the new teams the "Ohio Bengals" or "Ohio Browns", for example to help ease the transition.
There is no way Cleveland will lose the Browns again.Cleveland has some of the best sports fans in the country,and football is the main sport in Cleveland.If any team left Cleveland it would be the Cavs,and I don't really see that happening either.I don't think Columbus really cares about getting a pro football,basketball,or baseball team either.They have The Buckeyes,which are one of the most popular college sports organizations,most of Ohio cheers on the Buckeyes.Plus Columbus already has a pro hockey team,and an arena football team.
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