The Strongest City In American Sports

[txstate]

New york LA Pittsburgh and Detroit top 4

[ogre]

Originally Posted by Charles

That's not the way I looked at it. I took total number of championships and divided by eligible team-years, not just since 1961. This is essentially championship percentage. I think LA has more championships per year than anyone else, at least that's what I came up with about 20 years ago...the ranking may be different now.

So a simplistic example would be 20 championships in 160 team-years (like four teams for 40 years) is better than 40 championships in 400 team-years.

I can see doing it the way you did. I can also see merit in the idea that different eras in pro sports have presented different challenges to club management in their attempts to put together good teams, so that you can really only compare cities during the time when every city being compared has had pro teams. Either way, it does show that ranking cities on their number of championships is not as straightforward as it might appear. Anyone doing this needs to specifiy the criteria being used for including championships for the list to be meaningful.

Charles, just out of curiosity, have you actually done the calculations for LA and compared them to other cities? Also, if so, did you include the entire LA area, or just the teams in LA proper? As an example of the need to actually count the numbers, off the top of my head, it appears that it might be a close call between LA and Boston based on team-years. A quick count in my head gives me totals of 32 championships for Boston and 18 for the LA metro area. Keep in mind that Boston had fewer team-years than you might think at first, for a significant chunk of the time before LA had major-league clubs, because the modern pro leagues in some sports did not exist yet when Boston began accumulating team-years for their baseball teams. For a while there, Boston's total of clubs consisted only of two baseball teams, because the modern leagues in the other sports did not exist yet. Off the top of my head, this looks like a close call, but right now I'm feeling too lazy to do a lot of research into facts like how long the Redskins were in Boston, how long the Raiders were in LA, how long the Clippers have been in LA, etc., etc., so that's why I'm asking about any calculations you may have done, since I'm going strictly off the top of my head.

Without the actual numbers, it gets even more complicated when you bring New York into the mix. They have a lot of championships, but they also have a lot of team-years, due to their having had several teams in each sport for much of their pro sports history. Rate of efficiency in winning championships, based on team-years, is an interesting way to figure it, though, whatever the numbers reveal.

[ogre]

Okay, now you know, the big cities might have to move over and make way for the little guy if you base the rankings on championships per club-year. This is just a rough estimate, based on approximations in my head of where the most likely contenders rank, so take it with a grain of salt, but my off-the-top-of-the-head estimate is that, with twelve championships in 88 years of play in the NFL for the one major-league sports club that has ever existed in this city, giving a titles-to-club-years ration of 12:88 = 0.14, Green Bay may take the top spot in the rankings on this basis.

[ogre]

When this thread was started way back last year, the OP expressed his desire to account for the fact that a number of pro sports clubs have moved from one city to another, and, in the case of teams that have won titles in more than one city, to credit each city for the championships actually won during a champion team’s time in that city. For example, the Dodgers have won the World Series six times, five times in Los Angeles, and once in New York City as the Brooklyn Dodgers. The OP’s idea was that LA should get credit for the five titles the Dodgers have won while based in LA, and that NYC should be credited with one championship, for the Series won by the Brooklyn Dodgers, rather than crediting LA,, where the Dodgers happen to be located at present, with all of the Dodgers’ championships. This seems to be a reasonable way of doing this, given that the OP’s stated purpose was to rank cities, rather than teams. However, the OP also seemed to be unaware of just how many clubs have won titles in more than one city, and he never got back to us with another post ranking cities on the basis of championships actually won in each city.

Well, I’ve been doing some research. I’ve come up with a ranking that gives each U.S. city credit for championships won by major-league sports clubs located in that city when they won their titles.

Another point that has been discussed in this thread is the difficulty in pinning down which championships to include in a ranking. Do you include every title a team in any pro sports league has ever won, or only those championships won in a sport’s modern era? If it’s the latter, how do you determine when the modern era began? There is also the question of whether to rank metropolitan areas, or individual cities within metro areas. People may have different opinions about which championships to include, and how to make the rankings, but if someone making such a ranking sets definite criteria, and lets others know clearly what those criteria are, then there is at least a basis for understanding the ranking. This being the case, here are the criteria I’ve used in this ranking:

Only U.S. cities are included. Besides the fact that the thread title is “Strongest city in American Sports,” not North American, it becomes too much of an apples-oranges comparison to rank both U.S. and Canadian cities on total championships, due to the fact that the two countries both have clubs in some sports, while in other sports, the top pro teams are located in only one or the other of the two countries. How do you compare NFL and CFL championships, for example? I’ll try to keep things simple, by including only U.S. cities.

I’m basing the rankings on metro areas, rather than individual cities. There are too many teams that have played in the city some years and the suburbs in other years, along with anomalies such as the current situation where both NYC football teams play in the New Jersey suburbs but still call themselves the “New York Somethings,” or the fact that the Angels can’t seem to make up their minds whether to identify with the greater LA area or only Anaheim with their team name. In the interest of keeping it simple, I’m going with metro areas.

Only the 31 cities where clubs that exist today have won championships are included in the ranking. If a club that once won a championship no longer exists, that championship is not included in the total for the city where they won it; if the club still exists, the city where they won the title is ranked, even if that city no longer has any major-league clubs. Two cities which no longer have major-league clubs are ranked as a result. Those are Rochester and Syracuse. Both cities had NBA titles won by clubs which still exist today, Rochester in 1951, by the Rochester Royals (later the Cincinnati Royals, and Kansas City-Omaha/Kansas City Kings, who are currently the Sacramento Kings), and Syracuse in 1955, by the Syracuse Nationals (who later became the Philly 76ers). Though championships won by clubs that are now defunct are not included in the main list, below the main list I have included info about championship clubs which no longer exist. All of them were football teams which won NFL titles in the league’s first decade.

My reason for deciding not to include championships won by now-defunct teams is that a final criterion I’m trying to apply to the rankings is that these are championships won in each sport’s modern era. Sometimes there is an overlap between eras, with a present-day league in its early years still including a few low-budget, small-city kinds of clubs. In the interest of including only "modern-era" championships, I'm leaving out a few NFL titles won in the league's first decade by some small-budget holdovers from a previous era, clubs which did not last more than a few years in the NFL, and did not really fit with the league's early trend toward top clubs located mainly in big cities.

Deciding what constitutes the “modern era” is a judgment call. For purposes of these rankings I’m defining modern eras as follows:

Baseball: 1903 to present, with championships being determined by the modern World Series, between the AL and NL champions.

Basketball: 1946-47 season to present, which includes all the championships in the NBA (1949-50 season to present), as well as the Basketball Association of America (1946-47 season through 1948-49 season), the first modern pro league with most of its clubs located in big cities and playing their games in large arenas, and the direct predecessor of the NBA, whose records are included in the NBA’s official records.

Hockey: 1926-27 season to present. The Bruins became the first NHL club based in a U.S. city, when they began play in the ’24-’25 season. Two seasons later, the Chicago Black Hawks, NY Rangers, and Detroit Red Wings began play in the NHL. The ’26-’27 season thus began a shift toward having more of the top, big-market NHL clubs located in U.S. cities than in Canadian cities. The addition of the clubs in NYC, Detroit, and Chicago to a league already represented in Montreal, Toronto, and Boston, also doubled the number of clubs located in large cities, marking a significant shift toward large markets, and the beginning of the decline in participation by shoestring clubs in small cities scattered across Canada. The shift toward the U.S. and toward major cities marked the beginning of the NHL as it exists today.

Football: 1920 to present, the era of the NFL, which played its first championship season in 1920, the beginning of the existence of one top major league representing cities across a large portion of the U.S., as opposed to a number of smaller regional leagues.

One criterion applying specifically to football: I'm not including AFL championships. I believe I recall reading somewhere that the NFL includes AFL titles in its official records, since those clubs all now belong to the NFL, but I'm thinking that in the AFL's early years most likely the competition in the AFL was inferior to the overall level of talent in the NFL. It's impossible to really know when the AFL began to be good enough that its champions could be viewed as being on about the same level as NFL champions. Therefore, the only championships I'm including are NFL titles from before the Super Bowl era, and Super Bowl winners, which does include two AFL champions ('68 Jets and '69 Chiefs), but only because they proved that they were on the NFL's level by beating the NFL champs in the Super Bowl.

Speaking of the Super Bowl, I'm listing the year the NFL officially lists as the championship year with my info on the years teams won championships, not the calendar year when each Super Bowl was played.

Okay, this post is getting kind of long, so I'll make another post with the rankings themselves.

[ogre]

City rank based on total championships:




NYC
55 titles:

Yankees (MLB) 26: 1923, 27, 28, 32,
36, 37, 38, 39, 41, 43, 47, 49, 50, 51,
52, 53, 56, 58, 61, 62, 77, 78, 96, 98,
99, 2000

Giants (NFL) seven: 1927, 34, 38, 56,
86, 90, 2007

Giants (MLB) five: 1905, 21, 22, 33, 54

Islanders (NHL) four: 1980, 81, 82, 83

Rangers (NHL) four: 1928, 33, 40, 94

NJ Devils (NHL) three: 1995, 2000, 03

Knicks (NBA) two: 1970, 73

Mets (MLB) two: 1969, 86

Brooklyn Dodgers (MLB) one: 1955

Jets (NFL) one: 1968.

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Boston
33 titles:

Celtics (NBA) 17: 1957, 59,
60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68,
69, 74, 76, 81, 84, 86, 2008

Red Sox (MLB) seven: 1903,
12, 15, 16, 18, 2004, 07

Bruins (NHL) five: 1929, 39
41, 70, 72

Patriots (NFL) three: 2001,
03, 04

Braves (MLB) one: 1914.

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Chicago
25 titles:

Bears (NFL) nine: 1921, 32, 33, 40, 41, 43,
46, 63, 85

Bulls (NBA)six: 1991, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

Blackhawks (NHL) three: 1934, 38, 61

White Sox (MLB) three: 1906, 17, 2005

Cardinals (NFL) two: 1925, 47

Cubs (MLB) two: 1907, 08.

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Detroit
22 titles:

Red Wings (NHL) 11: 1936, 37, 43, 50, 52, 54,
55, 97, 98, 2002, 08

Lions (NFL) four: 1935, 52, 53, 57

Tigers (MLB) four: 1935, 45, 68, 84

Pistons (NBA) three: 1989, 90, 2004.

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Los Angeles
19 titles:

Lakers (NBA) 10: 1972, 80, 82, 85,
87, 88 2000, 01, 02, 09

Dodgers (MLB) five: 1959, 63, 65, 81, 88

Angels (MLB) one: 2002

Anaheim Mighty Ducks (NHL) one: 2007

Raiders (NFL) one: 1983

Rams (NFL) one title: 1951.

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Philadelphia
16 titles:

Athletics (MLB) five: 1910, 11, 13, 29, 30

Eagles (NFL) three: 1948, 49, 60

76ers (NBA) two: 1967, 83

Flyers (NHL) two: 1974, 75

Phillies (MLB) two: 1980, 2008

Warriors (NBA) two: 1947, 56.

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Pittsburgh
14 titles:

Steelers (NFL) six: 1974, 75, 78, 79, 2005, 08

Pirates (MLB) five: 1909, 25, 60, 71, 79

Penguins (NHL) three: 1991, 92, 2009.

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Green Bay
12 titles:

Packers (NFL): 1929, 30, 31, 36, 39, 44,
61, 62, 65, 66, 67, 96.

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Saint Louis
12 titles:

Cardinals (MLB) 10: 1926, 31, 34,
42, 44, 46, 64, 67, 82, 2006

Hawks (NBA) one: 1958

Rams (NFL) one: 1999.

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San Fr. Bay
(includes San Jose)
12 titles:

49ers (NFL) five: 1981, 84, 88,
89, 94

A’s (MLB) four: 1972, 73, 74, 89

Raiders (NFL) two: 1976, 80

Warriors (NBA) one: 1975.

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Baltimore
Seven titles:

Colts (NFL) three: 1958, 59, 70

Orioles (MLB) three: 1966, 70, 83

Ravens (NFL) one: 2000.

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Cleveland
Seven titles:

Browns (NFL) four: 1950, 54, 55, 64

Indians (MLB) two: 1920, 48

Rams (NFL) one: 1945.

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Twin Cities
Seven titles:

Lakers (NBA) five: 1949, 50, 52,
53, 54

Twins (MLB) two. 1987, 91.

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Washington
Seven titles:

Redskins (NFL) five: 1937, 42, 82,
87, 91

Bullets/Wizards (NBA) one: 1978

Original Senators (MLB) one: 1924.

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Dallas/FW
Six titles:

Cowboys (NFL) five: 1971, 77, 92, 93, 95

Stars (NHL) one: 1999.

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Cincinnati
Five titles:

Reds (MLB): 1919, 40, 75, 76, 90.

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Miami
Five titles:

Dolphins (NFL) two: 1972, 73

Marlins (MLB) two: 1997, 2003

Heat (NBA) one: 2006.

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Denver
Four titles:

Avalanche (NHL) two: 1996, 2001

Broncos (NFL) two: 1997, 98.

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San Antonio
Four titles:

Spurs (NBA): 1999, 2003, 05, 07.

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Houston
Two titles:

Rockets (NBA) two: 1994, 95.

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Kansas City
Two titles:

Royals (MLB) one: 1985

Chiefs (NFL) one: 1969.

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Milwaukee
Two titles:

Braves (MLB) one: 1957

Bucks (NBA) one: 1971.

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Tampa Bay
Two titles:

Buccaneers (NFL) one: 2002

Lightning (NHL) one: 2004.

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Atlanta
One title:

Braves (MLB): 1995.

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Indianapolis
One title:

Colts (NFL): 2006.

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Phoenix
One title:

Diamondbacks (MLB): 2001.

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Portland
One title:

Trailblazers (NBA): 1977.

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Raleigh
One title:

Hurricanes (NHL): 2006.

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Rochester
One title:

Royals (NBA): 1951.

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Seattle
One title:

Supersonics (NBA): 1979.

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Syracuse
One title:

Nationals (NBA): 1955.




Championships won by clubs that are now defunct (all clubs were in the NFL):

Canton:
Two NFL titles.
Canton Bulldogs, 1922, 23 NFL champions.
Club’s years in NFL: 1920-23 and 1925-26 (played in
Cleveland during 1924).

Akron:
One NFL title.
Akron Pros, 1920 NFL champions.
Club’s years in NFL: 1920-26.

Cleveland:
One NFL title.
Cleveland Bulldogs, 1924 NFL champions.
Club’s years in NFL: 1924-27 (moved from Canton to Cleveland after 1923 season; returned to Canton for 1925, while, during the league’s somewhat unorganized early years, a second Bulldogs team also continued play in Cleveland, with NFL records listing the 1924, and 1925-27 versions of the Cleveland Bulldogs as the same club).

Not included in Cleveland’s total of championships listed above, because that list includes only championships by clubs which still exist today.

Philadelphia (Frankford
Athletic Club):
One NFL title.
Frankford Yellow Jackets, 1926 NFL champions.
Club’s years in NFL: 1924-31.
Note: Frankford Yellow Jackets are not included in Philly’s total of championships listed above because that list includes only titles won by clubs which still exist today. Also, this was more of an independent athletic club, with a prior history as an autonomous club before joining the NFL during the leauge’s loosely organized early years. The club happened to be located in Philadelphia, but, with its history as a private athletic club, did not really represent the city the way modern pro sports clubs represent their cities.

Providence:
One NFL title.
Providence Steam Roller, 1928 NFL champions.
Club’s years in NFL: 1925-31.




Twelve cities that currently have at least one major-league pro team have no championships at the major-league level. They are: Buffalo, Charlotte, Columbus, Jacksonville, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and San Diego. Of these, the two cities that have gone the longest from the time they first had any pro team at the major-league level are Buffalo and San Diego. Both cities had charter-member clubs in the AFL, meaning that these clubs have competed since 1960, and have been in a league competing for the top professional prize in their sport since 1966, the first season for which the overall pro football championship was determined by the Super Bowl.

Even though I'm not including AFL titles in my rankings, perhaps a kind of tie-breaker between the Bills and Chargers would involve the fact that they were both AFL champions. On this basis, San Diego comes out on the losing end, because the Bills were AFL champs more recently than the Chargers. The Chargers won their one AFL title in 1963, while the Bills were AFL champs in both '64 and '65--beating the Chargers in both seasons' title games.

Next to Buffalo and San Diego, the city that has gone the longest with at least one major-league club and no championship to show for it is New Orleans, which has been a major-league town since the Saints were added to the NFL in '67, but has never won a title either in football or in the NBA, where N.O. has had two clubs in its history, the Jazz and the Hornets.

Of any city that currently has a major-league club in at least one sport and has never won a championship at the top level, Oklahoma City has experienced this futility for the shortest time. They are the most recent major-league city, with their major-league existence going back only to 2005 when OKC was the temporary home-game setting for two seasons for the Hornets, while New Orleans rebuilt after Hurricane Katrina, and their claim to a major-league team of their own including only one season, the most recent NBA season, with the Supersonics/Thunder.