Agassi used crystal meth, book reportedly says (athletes, lose, people)

[Neuling]

Originally Posted by rnc76

You could take a group of 1000 people and they could train just like Agassi from the time they are young. Maybe 1 would become Agassi's level of tennis player. To get to that level of professional athlete...aka one of the best of all time...you have to be incredibly gifted AND work incredibly hard.

Maybe. I just don't like the word talent used in combination with sports. In my opinion talent applies more to mental achievements such as the arts. With sports it seems more like physical ability.

[rnc76]

Originally Posted by Neuling

Maybe. I just don't like the word talent used in combination with sports. In my opinion talent applies more to mental achievements such as the arts. With sports it seems more like physical ability.

Very rarely do stupid people become all time great athletes IMO. Look at people like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Andre Agassi, Roger Federer, Lance Armstrong... They all seem to be intelligent people. Are there some professional athletes that get by on pure physical ability...sure, but they generally don't make it to all time great status. It takes a level of intelligence and mental discipline to maintain greatness in a sport. It takes decades of training and competition to be considered in the argument of an all time great. I'm not saying Michael Jordan is on the intelligence level of a Nobel prize winning physicist, but MJ is still an intelligent man that was blessed with abnormal physical gifts. Talent comes in many forms.

[Neuling]

Frankly, I don't think the people you mentioned are more intelligent than the average person. (By the way, when I said MJ earlier I meant Michael Jackson, not Jordan, it just struck me when you used the initials MJ for Jordan ).
Well, whatever. Andre played a lot of good matches, regardless of how he got to the top. So he deserves the credit for the show he put on.

[first one]

I think the distinction between crystal meth or other performance-inhibiting drugs and steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs is very important. If Agassi took steroids in an attempt to cheat, I'd care much more. I think Navratilova and Safin are wrong to criticize him so sharply.

[Wicked Felina]

Originally Posted by Neuling

Andre played a lot of good matches, regardless of how he got to the top.

What does this mean? Are you suggesting that he got to the top because he took an illegal substance that inhibits performance?

Gasquet should be banned and return his winnings and titles for testing positive for cocaine. His was a classically ridiculous explanation. Rafael Nadal defended Gasquet, but not Agassi?

Navratilova, seeing as how she was less than forthright about her sexuality (understandably, but she lied, which is her complaint about Agassi), should return her championship titles.

Bjorg, MacEnroe..return those titles! You lied about drug use. Rafa Nadal - isn't being coached during matches cheating? That ATP rule in and of itself would get nearly all of the top ranked players booted. Cheaters.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by Wicked Felina

Navratilova, seeing as how she was less than forthright about her sexuality (understandably, but she lied, which is her complaint about Agassi), should return her championship titles.

Seriously? Dont see the difference?

[Wicked Felina]

No. Don't see the difference between Roger Clemens and Agassi?

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by Wicked Felina

No. Don't see the difference between Roger Clemens and Agassi?

I have to say that drug use and sexual orientation are two very different issues. For one, drug use is illegal, while lesbianism is not.

[Wicked Felina]

Really? These days and in our culture, yes. But don't you think that back in the 70', 80's and 90's, openly admitting homosexuality on the ATP tour would've been death to a career? In addition, loss of sponsorships.

I was making an extreme comparison by saying she lied. Her issue with Andre was that he lied. And lying is just that - lying, no matter who does it. I doubt you'd find one person on earth who wasn't guilty.

Martina, as great a champion as she is, used a faulty comparison. IMO, she was wrong in jumping to conclusions about Andre Agassi, without fully explaining herself. And she has since said so.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by Wicked Felina

Really? These days and in our culture, yes. But don't you think that back in the 70', 80's and 90's, openly admitting homosexuality on the ATP tour would've been death to a career? In addition, loss of sponsorships.

I was making an extreme comparison by saying she lied. Her issue with Andre was that he lied. And lying is just that - lying, no matter who does it. I doubt you'd find one person on earth who wasn't guilty.

Martina, as great a champion as she is, used a faulty comparison. IMO, she was wrong in jumping to conclusions about Andre Agassi, without fully explaining herself. And she has since said so.

It's a little different keeping one's sexual orientation as personal, especially back in the 70s and 80s. Drug use is clearly a bad choice and I can see why people lie about it, but it's really not comparable to sexual orientation whatsoever. Two totally different species.