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Old 04-26-2013, 10:44 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 2,042,736 times
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That's funny I left Southern California on Christmas Eve,for Missouri I like to never warmed up rest of the Winter.Then one time I left Colorado mountains in June for Missouri and the Summer about killed me.

brushrunner
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Brookings
65 posts, read 190,988 times
Reputation: 85
yep thats Missouri ... from the oven to the freezer !
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 30,943,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moving46 View Post
I read what you said but my problem with shoneys is it doesnt take 10 months to cover a roof with a tarp. It would show they want to rebuild and show the city they care.
Its obvious they dont. I emailed shoney's about it several months ago and was told they were in the process of turning off the electricity. whatever

yes I read your post but something like that shows noone cares
Having lived here many years (26 to be exact - shows you how long I've been posting on city-data), I know a few business owners and one in particular that owns a BIG hotel franchise and he told me that everybody is hurting bad. very bad. Yes, the tornado didn't help one bit, but Branson has been in a slow decline for many years. Big name entertainers moving out (or dying), and theaters being transformed into churches, which do not pay property tax. The Falls shopping center off of 265 is depressing to even look at. Many businesses have failed in the past few years that would have done well in the 1990s because there just are NOT enough people visiting or living here to support them.

Branson tries to move forward to attract the "families" but "families" don't have a huge discretionary income because children are mighty expensive to raise, (I am told) and the price of gasoline doesn't help. Crowds are getting smaller and smaller and right now it is the Christmas season that is keeping many businesses afloat. Places like Shoney's are only open because other franchise stores in the country are keeping them open. That's why they are in no big rush to reopen.

Attracting visitors isn't rocket science. Look at the tourist areas that are thriving and the ones that are not and it doesn't take long to see that people enjoy gambling. Many people I know casually would much rather go to Downstream or Indigo Sky Casinos than Silver Dollar City, and the kicker is that they routinely spend three or four times MORE MONEY there than they would in Branson, so money is not the issue. People want to have fun and once you have seen one or two Branson shows, frankly they all start to seem the same. There isn't enough diversity in Branson to keep people coming back and that is what they need to work on.

If Branson is so dead-set unwilling to put in a casino they should at least strive to offer a larger variety of "fun" things for adults to do (please don't even mention zip lining). And by God, they could use some better restaurants.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:16 PM
 
850 posts, read 1,681,932 times
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The experience of Cripple Creek Co. would not support the "gambling brings crowds" thesis. And isn't Atlantic City largely considered a failure? How about the river boats in Kansas City and St. Louis - have they brought in even a tenth of the numbers that were projected? And do those visitors spend any money anywhere else in town? Does anyone remember the promises made over legalized gambling on horse races? That was decades ago and no one EVER opened a race track.

There are many who want to go to casino's of course. There are many casinos to go to; most visitors to Branson will drive past several on their way, nearly all of which have plenty of vacant parking places. But there are many of us who simply do not want to be around or even near a casino and all the tawdry decadence associated with them. Adding gambling to Branson is not likely to bring many new visitors, and will definitely turn off many of its present ones.

My suspicion is that Branson long ago became a victim of its own success; and nothing succeeds like excess. People came for a bit of relaxation among the trees and the hills and the rivers. To accommodate them they bulldozed the trees, leveled the hills, and paved over the rivers.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 30,943,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrby View Post
The experience of Cripple Creek Co. would not support the "gambling brings crowds" thesis. And isn't Atlantic City largely considered a failure? How about the river boats in Kansas City and St. Louis - have they brought in even a tenth of the numbers that were projected? And do those visitors spend any money anywhere else in town? Does anyone remember the promises made over legalized gambling on horse races? That was decades ago and no one EVER opened a race track.

There are many who want to go to casino's of course. There are many casinos to go to; most visitors to Branson will drive past several on their way, nearly all of which have plenty of vacant parking places. But there are many of us who simply do not want to be around or even near a casino and all the tawdry decadence associated with them. Adding gambling to Branson is not likely to bring many new visitors, and will definitely turn off many of its present ones.

My suspicion is that Branson long ago became a victim of its own success; and nothing succeeds like excess. People came for a bit of relaxation among the trees and the hills and the rivers. To accommodate them they bulldozed the trees, leveled the hills, and paved over the rivers.
Using your own example, in 2011, Cripple Creek had no rapes, no murders and no robberies. (http://www.city-data.com/city/Crippl...-Colorado.html) Compare that with Branson's 2010 figures (the most recent available), at 1 murder, 7 rapes and 19 robberies. It sure sounds like the "tawdry decadence" surrounding Branson beats Cripple Creek, hands down. So much for that theory.

According to • Statistics and Facts about U.S. Casinos | Statista, "Casino gaming revenue in Nevada amounted to approximately 10.7 billion U.S. dollars in 2011. The casino industry in Nevada employs about 174 thousand people who earn $41,450 on average. More than one fourth of the U.S. adult population has gambled at a casino in the past twelve months favoring slot machines (53%) while playing on a budget of less than 100 U.S. dollars (48%)."

Kansas City brought in $741,000,000 and St. Louis brought in $1,114,000,000 gambling dollars in 2011. • Gross gaming revenue of U.S. casino markets 2010-2011 | Statistic. Apparently for every person who is "driving by the casinos" to come to Branson, 20 or 30 people are stopping drop some money in their coffers. In fact, St. Louis is the 6th most money-making destination in the entire country for casinos. It sounds to me like they are doing very well, indeed. I'm sure that Branson could use some of those millions and millions of dollars.

The fact of the matter is that a casino is a business just like a church is a business, they are just selling different products. By not getting on the bandwagon with a casino, Branson is missing out on a golden opportunity, and by keeping the "no casino" attitude, it just might spell out Branson's doom.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:26 AM
 
850 posts, read 1,681,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Using your own example, in 2011, Cripple Creek had no rapes, no murders and no robberies. (http://www.city-data.com/city/Crippl...-Colorado.html) Compare that with Branson's 2010 figures (the most recent available), at 1 murder, 7 rapes and 19 robberies. It sure sounds like the "tawdry decadence" surrounding Branson beats Cripple Creek, hands down. So much for that theory.

You have shown nothing.

I am not championing Branson as it is. I do not care for it as it is. But casinos may be one of the few things able to make it worse. More to the point, I do not think casinos will in any way improve the lives of the people of Branson. That is just an opinion, but it is based on observing what has happened in other places where grand promises were made and herculean efforts were made to bring in gambling. Obviously the future is always unknown so who can really know for certain, but your scattergun blasts miss my point entirely.

Comparing the crime volume of Branson to that of a community 1/50th the size, and with a tiny, tiny fraction of the number of transient visitors is pointlessly stupid. But who said anything about crime anyway? I said I do not like casinos and observed they are tawdry and decadent. I'll take this opportunity to add slimy and rotten and will think of some more names later. If bringing casinos to Branson would somehow miraculously reduce the crime rate to zero, I still am not going. I do not like them. A lot of people do not like them. You do. Bully for you.

Of course a lot of people do like casinos. Money certainly is spent in casinos in St. Louis and Kansas, City. Also northeast and southern Oklahoma, and various locales in Mississippi and Illinois. But is anyone going to build a casino in Branson that will cause people in Chicago, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, St. Louis, or anywhere at all to drive by all these other existing places? What on earth could Branson locations add that would draw them on by existing casinos? And can you at least recognize that there is a poplulation that will no longer come to Branson if gambling comes in? Maybe they will be outnumbered by those who can't get enough of slot machines, but I doubt it.

Las Vegas has thrived on gambling, sure. Also associated legal and illegal activities such as prostitution. So what? The question isn't what Vegas has done, but what Branson might do. I've been to Vegas on business many times in the past, and will no longer even go for that. Vegas is tawdry, decadent ... oh, I've already covered that. And the crime... 100 times more murders and rapes than Branson. 200 times more robberies. "So much for that theory", if you still insist on comparisons that are not really comparable.

Have the casinos improved the communities of St. Louis, Kansas City, or even Miami, Okla? Have the income levels risen in St. Louis more notably since the advent of casinos than in other similar communities without them? Has the unemployment rate dropped? Is even the total number of people employed up more than in comparable cities without casinos?

No. Again and again it has been shown that people come to the casinos, leave their money, and leave town. Money spent there is simply not available to be spent in local clothing stores, restaurants, or other businesses. I know - I've done business in many of those cities these last 35 years.

But lets go back to Cripple Creek - a town I know well. In the 22 years since the advent of gambling there Cripple Creek has "exploded" from 600 people to 1200, for a growth rate of under 30 people per year - slightly less than the county as a whole. This in the county seat, I should note. The expansion of the open pit gold mine has probably accounted for half of that. At any given time about 1/3 of the buildings are empty along the whopping three blocks of the downtown area. Since the advent of casino gambling exactly one major non-casino related business has opened - Family Dollar. It is probably significant that I can find no statistics about the number of annual visitors to Cripple Creek, but from a totally subjective experience I have never been through there when I could not park right on the main drag, day or night, summer or winter. So who has benefited? The incomes, the property values, and the lives of the 600 people who were in Cripple Creek before gambling have changed not at all, all the promises of wealth and prosperity notwithstanding.

So supposing "some of those millions" end up in Branson area casinos rather than ones in St. Louis or Tunica. Will it make the community of Branson any better? Will it improve the lives or wealth of those who currently live or own property there, or even their children's? Because if it does not, what is the point exactly? Gambling interests have promised to save cities, indian tribes, and decaying resort areas all over the country. Mostly they have just made money for the casinos.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:42 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 30,943,488 times
Reputation: 22427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrby View Post
But lets go back to Cripple Creek - a town I know well. In the 22 years since the advent of gambling there Cripple Creek has "exploded" from 600 people to 1200, for a growth rate of under 30 people per year - slightly less than the county as a whole. This in the county seat, I should note. The expansion of the open pit gold mine has probably accounted for half of that. At any given time about 1/3 of the buildings are empty along the whopping three blocks of the downtown area. Since the advent of casino gambling exactly one major non-casino related business has opened - Family Dollar. It is probably significant that I can find no statistics about the number of annual visitors to Cripple Creek, but from a totally subjective experience I have never been through there when I could not park right on the main drag, day or night, summer or winter. So who has benefited? The incomes, the property values, and the lives of the 600 people who were in Cripple Creek before gambling have changed not at all, all the promises of wealth and prosperity notwithstanding.
I have not personally been to Cripple Creek, but I have spent many a month and year in Colorado, and I do know that Cripple Creek is very difficult to get to. There are no main roads in the sense of interstates or even anything as well developed as our highway 65 and it is necessary to go over numerous mountain passes to get there and the closest city of any size is Colorado Springs which is on the OTHER SIDE of several huge mountain peaks including Pike's Peak. There are no big airports near by.

Because of the terrain and the climate and the altitude, at the best, Cripple Creek is attractive to tourists only about 4 months out of the year. Keep in mind that Branson is less than 40 miles from Interstate 44, *and* has very good access (well, from the north and south, anyway). Our tourist season is 7 - 8 months. It would be reasonable to assume then, that because of better access we would do much better than Cripple Creek with regard to our casinos.

Casinos pay property taxes (which churches do not). At least non-Native American ones do (I'm not sure what the tax status is for NA run casinos). That tax revue ALONE would bolster the economy in Branson dramatically. Not only that, typically, Casinos pay very well and would provide to competition for good workers that this area needs. Back in the halcyon days of Branson, housekeepers were being paid more than $10 per hour, which has since dropped to less than $8. A little competition is exactly what this town needs.

Casinos are a business. I'm sure that the folks in Miami, Seneca and the other small towns are more than happy to have them. Even casino guests who don't do much more than gamble have to buy gasoline and usually a meal or two out. Anything is better than nothing. Not only that, just think how much revenue we would get from all those terrible hookers posting bond!!! LOL

20yrsinBranson
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:44 AM
 
151 posts, read 237,614 times
Reputation: 130
lets not forget the crime and gambling problems this brings.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:18 PM
 
10,748 posts, read 9,753,482 times
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Originally Posted by ladysheets View Post
yep thats Missouri ... from the oven to the freezer !
So true of many of the states in this region. Unfortunately some folks will visit during the best weather and believe it's that way all the time.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,604 posts, read 32,119,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie45 View Post
So true of many of the states in this region. Unfortunately some folks will visit during the best weather and believe it's that way all the time.
Unfortunate 'cause then the might want to stay and settle down. Then they'll start to whine and pt it down like someone who's been here, say, about 20 years or so.
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