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Old 08-19-2013, 01:34 PM
 
649 posts, read 774,419 times
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I'm also curious about racism that is prevalent in MO.
Nationally, it seems like it gets pretty bad press.

Missouri Hate Tweets: State Has High Rates of Homophobia, Racism, N-Word Usage (MAPS) - St. Louis - News - Daily RFT

Racist Missouri Looking for Another Dubious Title | Muck Fizzou (This one is particularly amusing.)

Missouri Half Way To Being Annoying Obviously Racist State Who Protends Not To Be ‹ Punching Kitty

African Americans Face Racism In Springfield, Missouri : blackmissouri.com African Americans in Missouri (This is particularly appalling.)

And we all know many racists are "in the closet", who are extremist white supremacist and nazis when they're engaged with their fellow white supremacists feeling free to be their true selves, and otherwise pretend to be normal human beings like the rest of us. One member of CD forum was discovered to be a Hitler lover and white supremacist. Where in Missouri does the South begin?
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
678 posts, read 954,855 times
Reputation: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
Pioneer stock? In the ozark hills??? Most people that settled the area were poor hill people that lived off the land and didn't do much farming. Not really a Midwestern trait lol.
The 'vast majority' of the poor hill people who settled SW Missouri outside of towns were farmers.

Taney County http://us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/ce...50/pg0340a.txt
Stone County 1860 Stone County Missouri Census
Ozark County 1860 Census

And I have ancestors listed on one of these census' so I guess like malevolentkitty, I too can claim I come from SW Missouri pioneer stock.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Branson, Missouri
622 posts, read 773,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW Missouri Dave View Post
The 'vast majority' of the poor hill people who settled SW Missouri outside of towns were farmers.

Taney County http://us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/ce...50/pg0340a.txt
Stone County 1860 Stone County Missouri Census
Ozark County 1860 Census

And I have ancestors listed on one of these census' so I guess like malevolentkitty, I too can claim I come from SW Missouri pioneer stock.
"Farmer" is a loose term. Yes they farmed what they could out of the land, but the soil of the southern Missouri Ozarks is not suitable for good farming. Some also had slaves....not exactly a Midwestern trait. I don't think we have a single corn field in Taney county. To try to say that ozarkers are from typical Midwestern farming backgrounds is completely insane. Ever watched the Beverly hillbillies? They are based of what ozarkers were like. The car is actually at college of the Ozarks to this day!
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:20 PM
 
260 posts, read 438,671 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by i35vagabond View Post
With a 95% white population, doesn't sound like enough minorities live in Springfield for the whites to have a reason to be racist. My guess is it's your typical medium sized, mostly white, middle class Midwestern town. Not too much different from Ft Wayne, Indiana, Des Moines Iowa, or Topeka Kansas. You'll be treated respectfully, and if there are racists there, they will keep their racism to their selves.
What makes Springfield differ from those other towns is that it really isn't Midwestern. It aligns more Dixie/southern as it's literately right on the Dixie and transition zone line.

Someone from the southern quarter of Missouri really would not have anything in common with someone from Iowa, KS, or IN unless it was far southern IN.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:28 PM
 
260 posts, read 438,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
I am gonna have to disagree with you. Springfield is 1 hour from Arkansas and around 4 hours from little rock. To say that it is totally Midwestern and has more in common with cities much further away is crazy in my book. Also to compare Branson to some random city in Nevada I have never heard of is equally interesting. Last I checked 99% of people who live in Branson consider ourselves southern, including me. Did you not think Branson was southern when you visited? I would be extremely surprised if you didn't... Look at any dialect, religion, climate and topographic map..
totally agree. Even the hardcore Midwestern people here on the MO forums even admit the southern quarter of the state is not Midwestern but part of the south.

There is NOTHING Midwestern about the Table Rock area. I was there two weeks before season starts so most of the people I came into contact were natives and just about everyone had southern accents. Landscape, culture, climate is NOT Midwestern.

Springfield has nothing in common with Iowa or KS. dialect, culture, religion, etc. It's got some Midwestern influences, but overall it's more southern than Midwestern and you will here some accents there too. Immediately just south of town it's Dixie feeling.

And the MO bootheel the southern part of it is just less than 70 miles from the state of MS which is a DEEP SOUTH state.

Anyone who calls Sikeston Midwestern is on some kind of drugs.

The census maps are not accurate. Then if so DE and MD would be southern states and Missouri has much more southern influence than DE and MD have. according to the census map the far northern part of WV would be the south and there is nothing southern about that area close to Pittsburg.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:37 PM
 
260 posts, read 438,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
Thank you for being so polite in your responses. As you can tell I am passionate about this issue lol. It is true that Missouri is considered the Midwestern by the census bureau which is what I assume you base this assessment on the state as a whole. The census bureau also classifies Maryland and Delaware as being southern. You can't tell me that just because I live in a certain state that I automatically have to be Midwestern, because most is the state may lean that way. Missouri is different than any other Midwestern state. Most people south of i44 consider themselves to be more southern than Midwestern. Branson is not in the Midwest nor will it ever be. Maybe you should take another trip here and talk to locals and listen to the accents. I can't really agree with you either that this part of the state is particularly open minded to other races. That's jus not true. I have experienced racism first hand. It's very sad and sometimes I wish this part of the state what more tolerant of minority groups. The national headquarters of the kkk is actually located 30 minutes from Branson.
Agree about the I44 thing except for the St. Louis county area because south of I44 in stl county is NOT southern. Now when you exit stl county heading southwest on I44 I notice the gradual transition from Midwest to more southern. It's pretty neat to see it. But places near I44 in the eastern part of the state still lean Midwestern even though they have southern influences. IMO once you hit Rolla then the southern influence outweighs the Midwest influence. Like Farmington area I consider about 30 percent southern and 70 percent Midwestern. Rolla IMO is about half and half and when you get outside of town the southerness then outweights Midwestern. The Ft. Leonard Wood area for example has a strong southern component feeling to it. Now that place was NOT tolerant towards minorities when my dad was there in the 60s.

However MO differs from the other Midwestern states. It actually has a good chunk of it's region that is located geographically and culturally southern. Also historical it was a slave state, it was admitted by Confederate congress as a territory and has a star on the battle flag. Also it has a large southern Baptist, Methodist population.

The second closest state would be Indiana as parts of the state are a transition zone like MO is, and southern IL has a lot of Baptist too.

However both of these states don't really have any chunks of large region that is located in the south like the southern quarter of MO is.

Which makes Missouri stand out from the rest. Not to mention linguistics too the southern accent line really doesn't cover much of southern IN or southern IN like it does in parts of southern MO. Not to mention MO sent 50,000-60,000 men to fight for the Confederacy, compared to just a few thousand that IN and IL is said to have sent. To have said MO is totally Midwestern is laughable. Both from a historic and modern standpoint. Missouri is about 50 percent solid Midwestern, 25 percent Dixie, and 25 percent a transitional zone of Midwest and south mixed in which overall still makes MO a Midwestern state, however with a noticeable southern component to it.






Last edited by MoSouthernMan; 08-19-2013 at 08:50 PM..
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:51 PM
 
Location: South Austin near Wm Cannon and South First
164 posts, read 213,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
"Farmer" is a loose term. Yes they farmed what they could out of the land, but the soil of the southern Missouri Ozarks is not suitable for good farming. Some also had slaves....not exactly a Midwestern trait. I don't think we have a single corn field in Taney county. To try to say that ozarkers are from typical Midwestern farming backgrounds is completely insane. Ever watched the Beverly hillbillies? They are based of what ozarkers were like. The car is actually at college of the Ozarks to this day!
Comparing them to the Beverly Hillbillies gives the impression people in the Ozarks are dumb hillbillies, and some Ozarkers may not like that...Sounds to me like the Ozarks are a region of their own, in Missouri an Arkansas....So you probably do have more in common with Ozarkers from Arkansas than you do with people from Texarkana or Pine Bluff, areas of the South outside the Ozarks...I'd venture to guess your section of Missouri is more like Harrison Arkansas than it's like Des Moines, Iowa. But on the same token, your section of Missouri is more like Des Moines, Iowa than it is like Macon, Georgia.

I also get the feeling you resent being considered Midwestern. If that's the case, why not just move 10 minutes or so across the border to Arkansas and then you can actually live in a true Southern state without the controversy if its a Southern or Midwestern state and people won't question if you are Southern or Midwestern?

No matter what you do or where you live or if you're Southern or Midwestern, Missouri will always be a Midwestern state and that's not gonna change. And 95% of the people outside of Missouri are going to continue to think that if you're from Missouri, you're Midwesterner and not a Southerner, and that's not gonna change either.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:03 PM
 
260 posts, read 438,671 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by i35vagabond View Post
Comparing them to the Beverly Hillbillies gives the impression people in the Ozarks are dumb hillbillies, and some Ozarkers may not like that...Sounds to me like the Ozarks are a region of their own, in Missouri an Arkansas....So you probably do have more in common with Ozarkers from Arkansas than you do with people from Texarkana or Pine Bluff, areas of the South outside the Ozarks...I'd venture to guess your section of Missouri is more like Harrison Arkansas than it's like Des Moines, Iowa. But on the same token, your section of Missouri is more like Des Moines, Iowa than it is like Macon, Georgia.

I also get the feeling you resent being considered Midwestern. If that's the case, why not just move 10 minutes or so across the border to Arkansas and then you can actually live in a true Southern state without the controversy if its a Southern or Midwestern state and people won't question if you are Southern or Midwestern?

No matter what you do or where you live or if you're Southern or Midwestern, Missouri will always be a Midwestern state and that's not gonna change. And 95% of the people outside of Missouri are going to continue to think that if you're from Missouri, you're Midwesterner and not a Southerner, and that's not gonna change either.
Branson has much more in common with Macon GA than Iowa! Sure it's not deep south, but Branson is still in the south and is southern culturally. Macon is also southern culturally. Just they're two types. Branson is upper south just like northern AR is. The climate, culture, religion, dialect line up with Macon more than IA! Branson is protestant, has southern linguistics, mild climate, ancestory and southern food.

Des Moines has NONE of that. Also IA does not have a star on the confederate flag or were they a slave state.

Even by the people on here from MO who are really anti southern will disagree with you about the southern quarter of Missouri.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Branson, Missouri
622 posts, read 773,975 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by i35vagabond View Post
Comparing them to the Beverly Hillbillies gives the impression people in the Ozarks are dumb hillbillies, and some Ozarkers may not like that...Sounds to me like the Ozarks are a region of their own, in Missouri an Arkansas....So you probably do have more in common with Ozarkers from Arkansas than you do with people from Texarkana or Pine Bluff, areas of the South outside the Ozarks...I'd venture to guess your section of Missouri is more like Harrison Arkansas than it's like Des Moines, Iowa. But on the same token, your section of Missouri is more like Des Moines, Iowa than it is like Macon, Georgia.

I also get the feeling you resent being considered Midwestern. If that's the case, why not just move 10 minutes or so across the border to Arkansas and then you can actually live in a true Southern state without the controversy if its a Southern or Midwestern state and people won't question if you are Southern or Midwestern?

No matter what you do or where you live or if you're Southern or Midwestern, Missouri will always be a Midwestern state and that's not gonna change. And 95% of the people outside of Missouri are going to continue to think that if you're from Missouri, you're Midwesterner and not a Southerner, and that's not gonna change either.
Lol you are actually the one with the issue. I am not going to move from my hometown which is 100% southern because you think all of Missouri is Midwestern. I actually think you resent the southern culture of this part of Missouri....I am not sure why! All my friends from here are southern and my town is southern so why should I have to move?! You really need to do your research and maybe learn some more about this part of Missouri!!!
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:36 PM
 
65 posts, read 124,698 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbored198824 View Post
Lol you are actually the one with the issue. I am not going to move from my hometown which is 100% southern because you think all of Missouri is Midwestern. I actually think you resent the southern culture of this part of Missouri....I am not sure why! All my friends from here are southern and my town is southern so why should I have to move?! You really need to do your research and maybe learn some more about this part of Missouri!!!
You don't even have a clue what your talking about! I live just outside of Branson, and moved here from Des Moines.Trust me, Springfield and Des Moines have nothing in common! PERIOD!!!
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