Retail question (St. Louis, Springfield, Rolla: income, tax, to live)

[tambre]

Well, as far as chain restaurants, I feel they have their place,especially when you're travelling cross country, and don't want to risk eating at a Mom and Pops that may not be the choice of the locals. Usually, they are near the highway exits, which make them perfect for stopping for a quick bite. Bob Evans is at the top of my list.

I did have one of the worst luncheon experiences ever, at at Subway or Blimpies, can't remember which, on Route 63, next to a gas station,...the most disgusting sandwich...old lettuce, tuna fish that tasted like it had been sitting warm all day, etc., so you can't always count on consistency in the chain restaurants, either. I really prefer supporting the Mom and Pop restaurants and not spending my hard earned money so some CEO can make an ungodly profit off of the backs of his workers. That's just my liberal thinking...,sure I'll get a backlash from that.

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

Why are so many people, both native/longtime Missourians and newcomers/transplants/interlopers, so enamored with chain restaurants over hometown restaurants?

In Rolla, for instance, we had a nice Italian restaurant operated by a man named Cardetti, whose parents came from Italy and who used family recipes in his ristorante. It lasted awhile but closed due to lack of interest. Everybody wants the authentic Italian dining offered by Olive Garden instead, and the chamber and city have been working hard for years to bring one to Rolla. Maybe they'll eventually succeed so people can have real Italian food.

Good question, indeed. Such "progress" can be found in the more rural corner of the Ozarks where I originated...it seems like West Plains has a new chain restaurant every time I head down there, and they are often packed. The southern part of town even has a mini-suburbia vibe going on with strip malls and chain stores.

I try to avoid chain food as much as possible. I occasionally get a burrito at Qdoba, but other than that I'd much rather patronize locally owned businesses. That way, as much of my money as possible is staying in my community, rather than flowing out to an external entity.

Luckily, the city of St. Louis has many mom-and-pop resturants. Once you get out in the suburbs that changes, and that is why I choose to live in the city.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by tambre

Well, as far as chain restaurants, I feel they have their place,especially when you're travelling cross country, and don't want to risk eating at a Mom and Pops that may not be the choice of the locals. Usually, they are near the highway exits, which make them perfect for stopping for a quick bite. Bob Evans is at the top of my list.

We love eating at Mom & Pops as opposed to chains because you can often get a real feel for the community from the other clientel.

However, I never eat at a place just called Mom's because that always begs the qusetion of just what happened to Pop!

[tambre]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

We love eating at Mom & Pops as opposed to chains because you can often get a real feel for the community from the other clientel.

However, I never eat at a place just called Mom's because that always begs the qusetion of just what happened to Pop!

LOL!

[8 SNAKE]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

I just don't get this attitude that so many of you have that by getting in chains, our area is proving that it's "moving up" or becoming as good as the cities. That sounds to me like you are wanting this place to be just like what you left.

In case you missed it, my "moving up" comment was laced with sarcasm.

I've lived in Missouri my entire life and grew up in a town with a 3-way stop sign that makes Springfield look like a thriving metropolis. I never asked anyone to bulldoze Battlefield and throw up a bean field or two so that I'd feel like I was back home. I know that you love to post for shock value and to scare the outsiders, but you're barking up the wrong tree here. I'm not the least bit intimidated by your ramblings and laugh at the ridiculous assumptions that you make.

You've managed to take an interesting discussion about stores & demographics and turn it into some fairy tale about the rapid destruction of mom and pop stores throughout Missouri. Well done.

[slyder1]

Originally Posted by mrschilicook

Okay..I don't want to start a "you all want to change the area" dispute, but I have a general question. Yesterday I went to Rogers (pop. ~40,000) and ran across Hills at Prommandade (or something like that)..it was a beautiful outdoor walking/shopping/entertainment district. The retailers included Williamns Sonoma and Pottery Barn (sorry ladies, no Trader Joe's). They even had a PF Changs!

Anyone know whey Rogers which has ~1/4 of the population of Springfield, would warrant retailers like WS and PB? Is the average income that much higher? Or do the populations of the surrounding cities make it a larger "metro" area than Springfield?


Lunch at PF Chang's was wonderful as expected...but the tax on lunch! It was about 13%. The waiter said it was because my mom had a cocktail and they tax alcohol unbelievably high. Is that Ark. or just the county Rogers is located in?

The 'Pinnacle Hills Promenade,' as it's called, isn't anything special... just a normal suburban lifestyle center, not a walking/shopping/entertainment district. I didn't know having a movie theater connceted to a shopping center make the place an entertainment district. The reason Rogers has a retail destination with WS, Pottery B., and PFC's is because the city resides in a much larger metro area. The Springfield and Northwest Arkansas MSA's are the same population wise, however Springfield is much, much more densely populated thus creating a much larger city feel. When you include Branson, Lebanon, Monette and all the other smaller cities that commute to Springfield into the equation, Springfield has a much larger population outreach(DMA).

If you don't know, there is a large plot of land at the 60/65 hwy. interchange that is being developed into a HUGE upscale lifestyle center/business/hotel/living/entertainment district(yes, it will have more than a movie theater) that is intended to inlcude a Cheesecake Factory, Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Von Maur, Costco, DSW, etc. The demographics of this area are more than anywhere in Southwest Missouri and Northwest Arkansas. The median household income within 1 mile radius of the property is $120,000; 3 mile $90,000; and 5 mile $79,000. Pretty appealing if your a retailer, not to mention the fact that the 60/65 interchange has over 120,000 cars pass by a day(and rising).

Yes, the tax down there is rediculous, and for what? I don't know.

[NOLA2SGF]

Originally Posted by slyder1

If you don't know, there is a large plot of land at the 60/65 hwy. interchange that is being developed into a HUGE upscale lifestyle center/business/hotel/living/entertainment district(yes, it will have more than a movie theater) that is intended to inlcude a Cheesecake Factory, Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Von Maur, Costco, DSW, etc.

Wow, I didn't know that! Do you have any more information about that, or any links? This area is of great interest to me as we are intending to move to SE Springfield after retiring and selling our houses (hopefully sometime in 2010).

[GeekOfTheOzarks]

Thanks for reminding me. Was going to fix a boring salad and baked potato for dinner. Now I think I'll head over to Ryan's for the big feast!

[BigRedIdiot]

Fine dining in Springfield and where the seemingly huge herd of humanity gathers is at any and all all-you-can-shovel-in buffets such as Golden Corral.

Surprisingly, elbowing my way into the Glenstone Street Golden Corral, I reveled in some of the tastiest pot roast ever et' at a pay-for place.

The mashed taters were delicious and it was shrimp night with around 8 or so different types of shrimp.

One concoction was your basic non-breaded shrimp in a light golden sauce with a light taste of garlic.

I was shocked at how good it was and you could shovel in all you wanted!!!!!!

Heck, for a buffet it was darn delicious!!!!!

If only they had scaloni but Springfield is not a fine-dining town, likely due to demographics.

Lots of Chinese-type food joints and a surprising number of Mexican-fare joints but those I have sampled mostly offered that "mid-west sameness" I experienced while dining at a large number of establishments across the land when I was involved with long-haul trucking during two separate periods.

However, with the number of eating out joints there is a huge number I haven't sampled, especially the independently owned joints tucked away here and there.

There are treasures out there. Often a solo establishment owned by the same individual or family for many years and offering GREAT food.

Newman, California, a burgh of 3,000 off the beaten path had a local restaurant whose name I forget.

Locals kept it afloat via frequent attendance until a death in the family led to a desire to do something different, I suppose. The place was always for lunch and dinner by local standards.

I believe boredom led those folks to get into something new.

The place was sold but the new owners prepared different fare and the over-all yummy taste of yore left with the departing past owners.

In a year lack of patronage led to permanent closure.

The fare of old was so tasty. Spiced just right. The fried chicken had a unique taste that made it yummy in a way I tasted nowhere else.

The garlic bread that came with the "chopped steak" (basic hamburger steak) was the best I ever had and the brown gravy atop a simple basic hamburger steak was among the tastiest gravy I ever ate.

I suppose that is the sign of a truly good cook. Spices and preparation and taste "just so" and prepared "just so" consistently.

I never had a bad or even average meal at that one-owner place and I miss it so.

Perhaps every city has that one place that appeals to enough folks to keep it going.

Of course, I have eaten at places others have raved about but that did not excite me in any way. Not bad meals but that "spark" was missing.

Different strokes for different folks!!!!

Generally, I believe that a successful chef or cook uses good or better quality ingredients that are fresh and knows how to prepare and spice-up the concoctions.

Those drawn to that consistent special taste will be delighted while those whose individual taste is not sated will poke around until they do find it.

Sadly, I believe that corporate dominated restaurants have made it harder for decent cooks/chefs to offer their fares due to so much competition and the brainwashing of the masses that name recognition results in higher quality or better taste.

[mrschilicook]

[
If you don't know, there is a large plot of land at the 60/65 hwy. interchange that is being developed into a HUGE upscale lifestyle center/business/hotel/living/entertainment district(yes, it will have more than a movie theater) that is intended to inlcude a Cheesecake Factory, Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Von Maur, Costco, DSW, etc. The demographics of this area are more than anywhere in Southwest Missouri and Northwest Arkansas. The median household income within 1 mile radius of the property is $120,000; 3 mile $90,000; and 5 mile $79,000. Pretty appealing if your a retailer, not to mention the fact that the 60/65 interchange has over 120,000 cars pass by a day(and rising).

Yes, the tax down there is rediculous, and for what? I don't know.[/quote]


I heard that they had approved the land for this type of development in the future. My understanding is that there are no plans at this time, but the approval opened the way for a future development in better economic times.
Speaking for myself....Trader Joe's....(I know it's wishful thinking, but a gal can wish).

Where did you get the income figures? That would be WAY higher than most any statistics I've ever seen for household income in these parts. Makes one wonder about the "avg income" stats in general.