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Old 11-16-2009, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Rolla, Phelps County, Ozarks, Missouri
1,069 posts, read 2,173,970 times
Reputation: 1252

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCaver View Post
... the following may not be popular or PC, but I'd love to see population growth cease and stop - the population IMHO should stabilize at a point where it can be sustained, and remain healthy [in body, soul, mental, and spirit] and vibrant. I do NOT buy the logic that a country, a state, any area would decay w/o growth.
This is a bold declaration in direct opposition to the collective wisdom of the Missouri Forum. It sounds more like something I would say than something from you. I can not believe that you, a moderator, said it, but there it is, so I guess you did. Is this some kind of trick?
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:28 PM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,679 posts, read 10,640,085 times
Reputation: 6868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarksboy View Post
This is a bold declaration in direct opposition to the collective wisdom of the Missouri Forum. It sounds more like something I would say than something from you. I can not believe that you, a moderator, said it, but there it is, so I guess you did. Is this some kind of trick?
'tis nothing to do with being a moderator... its how I've always felt, as a citizen, and as a caretaker/steward of what we have during our brief stay upon this land. And btw, if you don't know me by now, I don't play word tricks with such topics. sixtwobaldguy said exactly how I was trying to state also... too often across this land you see subdivisions [ticky tacky and otherwise] and malls and whatnot sprout on what was once prime farm and/or woodlands. Instead of taking better care of what has already been built, investing in upgrading/improving that which exists already, we humans scurry about, snatch up and (so-called) "develop" new. All at the alter of politics and the all-mighty dollar, be it in the form of fees, taxes, permits, sales, transactions, etc...
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Branson-Hollister-Kimberling City
1,806 posts, read 4,686,881 times
Reputation: 1556
Default Ideals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCaver View Post
Back to more on topic... the following may not be popular or PC, but I'd love to see population growth cease and stop - the population IMHO should stabilize at a point where it can be sustained, and remain healthy [in body, soul, mental, and spirit] and vibrant. I do NOT buy the logic that a country, a state, any area would decay w/o growth. To wit, I present the following, as just one example: Human Population Growth and Distribution in Southeast Michigan | Indicators | LLRS | EPA


It is rare, sadly, that population growth way too often begets the loss of farm &/or wild lands, the destruction of ecosystems, and other negative environmental changes to the lands that the urban growth claims.

I love the idea of stabilization, but the last time I heard projected population numbers, they're only going up. Way up. So how do we accomplish this ideal without legislating it done? I'm a "small government" type, so what's the solution?

The urban sprawl happens exactly like sixtwobaldguy says. I've seen it in California, & lots of other places. So it apparently happens everywhere, with no advance planning, just "people being people". Can we change that?

And no, Ozarksboy, you didn't catch the spirit of my words. But thanks for trying to say for me what you thought I meant. You do know it's not your growth/no growth ideas I object to, but the 10 pound hammer with which you hit the nail...right?

And getting back to the Original Post...I always heard the "little boxes made of ticky tacky" as being cheap crappy houses that were built without care & love...just somebody making a buck. Did anyone else get that from that song? My dad was a builder at the time who always built good, solid, quality homes with individual style that people were happy to own and will shelter folks for a good long time because they were built well to start with. 40 years later there's a big difference if a house was either cheap or well built at the start.


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Old 11-17-2009, 06:49 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,906,251 times
Reputation: 8127
A simple question-------when people move to a house in a subdivision, what happens to the house they were living in previously?

Does it get burned down and desytoyed ?

If somebody else moves into their former house, you now have 2 houses occupied.

If you want no population growth you have to make your area so undesirable to live in that no newcomers move there, all young people quickly exit upon HS graduation, and even locals start leaving cuz they can't stand the dying town'area.

There are towns/areas in the US that have that problem and they gladly would trade their situation of a dying area with your situation.
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:54 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 30,340,105 times
Reputation: 28970
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
A simple question-------when people move to a house in a subdivision, what happens to the house they were living in previously?

Does it get burned down and desytoyed ?

If somebody else moves into their former house, you now have 2 houses occupied.

If you want no population growth you have to make your area so undesirable to live in that no newcomers move there, all young people quickly exit upon HS graduation, and even locals start leaving cuz they can't stand the dying town'area.

There are towns/areas in the US that have that problem and they gladly would trade their situation of a dying area with your situation.
I think the ideal in this situation can be encapsulated in the approach of moderation in all things, including moderation.

I doubt that anyone is promoting a slow and steady death of any town. Rather, they're concerned about over-population and sprawl destroying the town's character. There has to be a balance between reasonable population growth, sustainability (infrastructure) and livability.

Some of us have moved to rural areas precisely because they are rural and we'd like them to remain that way. If not, we'd have selected an urban environment If that's not progressive enough for some, so be it.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 11-17-2009 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:17 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,906,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I think the ideal in this situation can be encapsulated in the approach of moderation in all things, including moderation.

I doubt that anyone is promoting a slow and steady death of any town. Rather, they're concerned about over-population and sprawl destroying the town's character. There has to be a balance between reasonable population growth, sustainability (infrastructure) and livability.

Some of us have moved to rural areas precisely because they are rural and we'd like them to remain that way. If not, we'd have selected an urban environment If that's not progressive enough for some, so be it.,

--" some of us have moved to rural areas "

Maybe the people already there felt the same when you moved to a rural area.

Many people move to an area, then want restrictions to slow down others from moving there.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 30,340,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
--" some of us have moved to rural areas "

Maybe the people already there felt the same when you moved to a rural area.

Many people move to an area, then want restrictions to slow down others from moving there.
I suppose that's possible. We moved into an existing home that had been empty for a year and the neighbors seemed glad to see us. We keep up both the home and the property and as neighbors we all work outside cooperatively without any "sensitivity" regarding propoerty lines.

Now had we built a new home on previously empty property then, yes, we could have been considered adding to sprawl.

Back to my "moderation" comment. Growth is inevitable but there can be smart growth that enhances, rather than detracts from an area. It's all a matter of wise husbandry of the land and density.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:42 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,906,251 times
Reputation: 8127
The problem many rural areas are experiencing , and it will get worse, is the result of the old saying of--" it comes back to bite you"

Most rural areas of the US are populated with people who have the mindset--" don't you dare tell me what I can or can't do on MY land"

Evidence of this is areas where you see the junkiest places--junked cars, old appliances all over, old unused trailer houses with the "guts" falling out next to one slightly better shape that got bought to replace it.

If someone objects, the rural coment is made------" don't you tell me what I can do on my land"

Well folks, that is now coming back to bite rural folks as developers buy up land and start building houses.

Rural folks who proudly proclaimed----" don't tell me what I can do on my own land"--should practice what they preach when developers start building on land that is owned by the developer.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,793 posts, read 10,629,937 times
Reputation: 3751
I can't see the overdevelopment being a problem in Missouri.
There just are not enough people entering the state.

In Missouri, I see pockets of housing tracts along the main roads, but have yet to see the California-type problem of developers destroying huge wilderness tracts (and ironically the only people protesting this kind of development are the liberal-tree huggers that most rednecks and rightwingers disdain).
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 30,340,105 times
Reputation: 28970
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I can't see the overdevelopment being a problem in Missouri.
There just are not enough people entering the state.

In Missouri, I see pockets of housing tracts along the main roads, but have yet to see the California-type problem of developers destroying huge wilderness tracts (and ironically the only people protesting this kind of development are the liberal-tree huggers that most rednecks and rightwingers disdain).
Au contraire! I disdain that type of "progress" and I'm a social moderate and fiscal conservative -- anything but a liberal tree-hugger, although I do have a healthy respect for Mother Nature and wish to see her preserved as much as possible. It has nothing to do with the political spectrum and everything to do with maintaining livability.
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