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Old 08-08-2007, 09:25 PM
242 posts, read 998,013 times
Reputation: 86


Come on up and I will give you the grand tour. Be forwarned a 4000 sq. ft. house here may cost you in the range of 750K to a million. Give it a few years, and the prices will drop. As for being a concrete contractor, we need relaible people here doing that. It took nearly 4 months for a guy to come and do a small area of our yard. Less than 30 square ft. and it was $1500 and took him less than half a day to do it. We did the grading and compacting before hand. They tell me just a year before that the price would have been half that. Still less two years before. that is what the contractors are getting. BTW, it hasn't been the best of work either. some of it has cracked and powdered.

Old 08-08-2007, 10:30 PM
95 posts, read 436,237 times
Reputation: 58
Well, sometimes it's not all about money but if you care and love your family as you state in your comments, St. George schools, employment security and medical benefits are not very good! I could only tell you as a paralegal for 20 yrs in California with all the great benefits that were provided by my employer and also state disability from the state of california, you can't get anything better. Utah does not provide state disability. So if you husband (pray for this) he becomes ill or needs surgery or whatever (outside workers comp) there is NO STATE DISABILITY BENEFITS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH! THEREFORE, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN UNLESS HE PURCHASES DISABILITY INSURANCE WHICH CAN BE EXPENSIVE. When I moved her from California, I had bluecross cal cobra and paid less then 400.00 per month. As far as your own medical insurance, you need to check with your carrier and also consult with insurance agencys here in St. George to see which plan is best for your whole family. I can only tell you that it is VERY EXPENSIVE! I know lots of co-workers that pay for only 2-3 dependents for medical coverage with major deductable around 900.00 a month. There are very few to choose from since the underwriters are LDS owned. Utah is a very different place to live and you need to remember that UTAH IS A MORMON STATE!!! You can have all the money in the world but this is an Mormon state and YOU have to obey by their rules. There is nothing wrong about the the Mormon or LDS (whatever you wish to call them) it is a religion just like anyother but the LDS members with money, run the companys and the self employed network. If your husband is planning to begin a self employed business (like in CA) he will be competing with the LDS construction self employed owners and I don't think that they will be happy about that! I have several very very good new friends here that are big time LDS and are very nice and most of them are self employed but I have been informed of this information.

As far as best area to live Washington area is where you will find 4000 sq ft homes for a good price (100+ sq foot) but I heard that the new international airport will be in Washington. Have you check Ivins? The Entrada homes? There is a private fine arts school called Tuhacan (sp?) if you get a chance to come and visit again, check out Ivins....the most beautiful place to live. There is also the beautiful homes in Country lane which is where snow canyon high school is and sand hollow for the kids. This is where we live and it's a safe place for your kids. Very good child care preschools rated the best in St. George. One last advise, check with a realtor for more information as to your questions. Ask for a non-LDS realtor (if you can find one) which there are few, that will be able to discuss these personal issues with you.

Oh and one more thing, you may want to contact a christian church and ask if they know of any christian realtors or contractors that may be of assistance. In 2004, there was a big stortage of building materials but not anymore. Also, have your husband check with the city as to the requirements for building and the lot. My advise, is to purchase a built home from a well known developer or contractor with a good reputation. There are a lot of polygamist that do fast poor work and when your house is falling apart you won't be able to find them....just be careful who you deal with but I'm sure your husband knows what to do since this is his profession.

Good luck on your move. Have you check North Carolina?

Last edited by The Casselli's; 08-08-2007 at 10:37 PM.. Reason: mistake type o
Old 08-09-2007, 09:22 AM
Location: Over Yonder..
77 posts, read 385,887 times
Reputation: 27
Moving to St. George doesn't have to be a negative experience. It appears the Craven Clan are doing their homework and finding the pros and cons of living here after life in Ca....Personally I think they will fit right in.....As for their business and this being a "Mormon state" as stated in a previous post..I would suspect if the Polygamist are hired to contract jobs I suppose a reputable Ca. business person should be able to find work too?...

Wages here are much lower, I agree...My son who is in his 30's also did his homework before he moved here...Sold his home in Ca. and put a large down payment on his home here, thus having a much lower mortgage to accommodate the lower income...Most would call is common sense...If all else failed and he wanted to move back he could sell his home and still return to Ca....However he loves it here and says he wouldn't go back for anything...Since moving here he has become a Deputy Sheriff with the Dept. Of Corrections...He knows he could make a lot more money elsewhere..But his family is very happy here!...There are success stories also!....As for his insurance...I am not sure what he pays, he did say...I do remember it was only a fraction of what it cost him when he worked for in a Los Angeles County position...I was shocked when he told me what he had been paying a month when he was there...My hubby and I always had a low rate group insurance from his work so we were kinda spoiled I guess..lol..

My daughter who is 19...Well that's another story...She says it's a nice place to visit but she wouldn't want to live here lol...It's not for everybody!!!....She opted to stay in Ca. when we all made our move.... Caselli's post mentioned your daughter not fitting in at the high school at 16 when moving here....We lived in Temple City and moved to Rancho Cucamonga when our daughter was 15..It wasn't a "Mormon town" but she had a hard time fitting in at that age too...She had no friends that first year..She used to always call me at lunch and we would joke...Well I am sitting here on the grass eating lunch and I can see the other outcasts too that she had given nick names too that sat alone everyday...The Una-bomber guy is having a sandwich and the Reader bought a hamburger...However the next year she finally made all her friends and fit in...My point being, that can happen anywhere and everywhere...Possibly in your daughters case the religion thing could have played a factor too, I am not discounting that....As for the drugs in school, that too can happen anywhere and does as we all know...

Just thought I would throw in my opinion...Funny thing about an opinion...It doesn't mean that it's right...It just means you have one!...lol..

Safe and happy journeys to you all~
Old 08-09-2007, 10:19 AM
242 posts, read 998,013 times
Reputation: 86
30 years ago no one other than Mormons wanted to live in Utah. Now that it has been discovered the newbies who move here are upset that there is a system where Mormon companies deal with Mormon companies. Well that was all there was. As for that today, some still do it the old way because of the ingrained enighborly thing to do. Yet I know many businesses that come that are not Mormon and if you pay decent, and are honest you have no problems. Attitude has more to do with it than anything. If you come in with a chip on your shoulder like the lady in the above post who came from California, you will have problems. Being anit Mormon will cause you problems. You don't have to convert, just be honest and not antagonistic. It is like that where ever you move. The culture is set. Learn about it, you can discuss it, but do not think it will change to fit you as one family. You will have to fit in to the prevelent culture no matter where or what state you move too. Blaming Mormons for all ills in this state is an easy thing to do. In fact in the So. Utah area it is not so much the Mormons as the old line families that control things. They are the ones who are on the city council and keep businesses out that pay more than a pitence in wages. They are the ones that think of their business and their huge profit margins while screwing over their employees. It is not the Mormons. It is the old line families. with more new people moving in, there will be a shift. There will be more ousting of the dead antiquated wood from city councils. Yes there are non Mormons on the city councils in so. Utah.

As for state disability, doing a google search, I found that only a very few states offer it. As to workman's comp. If you own a business over a few employees it is mandated by federal law. So if the above lady had a problem with state disability verses workman's comp she must work for a very small company of only one or two other employees. If there is a problem with it being larger she can go to the equal employment opportunity C (can't remember what C stands for) it is a federal agency and will deal with the lack of workmans comp. Just because there were a few state beneis offered in California, does not mean that all states carry them. In fact most states don't. Picking on Utah is absurd. Then pick on the whole federal system for not having it in place in all states.

As to being accepted. Again it is attitude. If you come in anti Mormon, you will have a problem. If you are a teenager going to a new school, you will no matter the state, have a problem. It is a fact of life that new kids at school have the adjustment period. If you have an anti Mormon chip on your shoulder along with the new aspect, you will have a double whammy. Mormons are not evil nor are they out to get you if you are not Mormon. Learn about the church, but yuou don't have to join. Be nice, and you will be treated nicely. Remember the two golden rules of nono subjects no matter where you live. Do not talk about politics, nor do you talk about religion. If you do, expect to have problems arise. It is human nature in all states and in fact all countries. You do not get shunned here. You will eventually be left alone if you have an anti attitude. You get what you want even if consciously it is not what you wanted. On the flip side if you are nice, you can count on help coming out the wooodwork when you need it. Contrary to the above attitude that Mormons only deal with Mormons is not true. If you are honest and do a good job, you will sought out. The new people moving in and even old timers are getting fed up with the shoddy services that the current crop of contractors do. Yes polygs do under the table work. What can you expect when a 13 year old kid is doing the wiring of your house? It's sad that it happens, but when the polygs do it cheaper, many contractors will sub out to them. there has been a lot of construction companies that have moved into the area since it's short lived designation as being the #1 place to live (BTW it doesn't even make the top 500 spots today) Those out of state companies brought in other out of state workers. A lot of local construction companies were pushed out or into bankruptcy (17 went into bankruptcy in 2006) Those construction/contractors the big ones are all non Utah oriented companies. So saying it is all Mormon is BS. Those same companies go to various places in the country as it becomes a hot real estate spot. When the economy goes south like it is here, they start leaving. This is a fact all over the country, not just in Utah.

So those are the bad things. Good things is it is a very family oriented place. There are lots of activities. A lot of them will be church related, but they are not the kind that are going to preach at you. A picnic is still a picnic, even if they pray before they eat. Mormons tend to do a lot of activities in group. So if they invite you don't shy away for fear that you will be expected to convert. They are just being nice and inviting you to an activity to be friendly and neighborly. It is very low crime here. There are those that have money, and those that don't. Yes there are some gang wannbes here, but they have not succeeded. Yes there is a major drug problem, but it is more of a trafficing and manufacturing problem rather than usage. The scenery is drop dead gorgous. There is every outdoor activity you can think of. Vegas is close by. You are on a major transportation corridor so you have access to many places. People are friendly and helpful (so long asn you are not anti attitude towards the local culture) there are very good theater/play productions. Cedar City has the Shakespeare festival that has won a tony award for off broadway productions. Ats are lacking. St. George has more than Cedar. In fact Cedar has a woolworth mentality when it comes to art. Education, you have Dixie State College (non Mormon) that offeres 4 year degrees. There is a small Jr. College in Colorado City (more than polygs in that town) In Cedar City you have Southern Utah University. It is a great school also non Mormon. If you need help your neighbors are there to help. I've not had that happen in any other state to the degree it does here. Yes I've lived in California, and not had good experiences there with neighbors. New Mexico was the worst for non help.

In the end it is a great place to live. You sound like you have a very good needed skill to bring to St. George. Don't let the anti Mormons with an ax to grind scare you off. It has been shown in several threads that she will spout out right untruths about the state and Mormons.
Old 08-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Location: The Circle City. Sometimes NE of Bagdad.
18,450 posts, read 19,461,961 times
Reputation: 48651
Dang Blondie,
I think you should open up a tour business in So. UT. Kinda like the Pink Jeep tours in AZ. Might make a lotta $$$$$. I" sign up.
Old 08-09-2007, 01:03 PM
242 posts, read 998,013 times
Reputation: 86
LOL, I use to work for Color Country tours back before I got married in the late 70's. I know this end of the state extremely well.
Old 08-09-2007, 01:38 PM
Location: Outside Newcastle
281 posts, read 1,076,788 times
Reputation: 115
I sure learned from Casselli's post from the perspective of raising a family in Southern Utah. I would however like to offer what I've learned about running a business here. While all employers are required to carry Workers Comp there is no state disability insurance in Utah. Also I would be completely naive to not mention that in a place like St. George there are probably long standing business and social relationships that have existed long before the town grew to what it is now. And that may or may not have a bearing on the chances of success of a new entity moving there from California.
Old 08-09-2007, 05:20 PM
Location: Small town Texas, from Southern California
445 posts, read 1,601,786 times
Reputation: 79
This is gonna be quick, the little one is crying!!!

Point blank, you could move ANYWHERE is the US at the age of 15, and you will not be accepted- Regardless of religion, race, money or noe money....I was one of those kids...We settleds here when i was 14, and it was hard, horrible, i was the new kid, it sucked. We would never move our kids at that age, i know from experience it it horrible.

It sounds like the casselis, you don't like Utah, why do you stay?

Thanks Blondie-Rabbit, you have been awesome, educated and friendly...if i have even one nice neighbor like you, LDS or not, i would be more than grateful...I am open minded, i am just not going to convert. There are a lot worse things in life than being Mormon.

Purple Grapes, thank you for your perspective....and your message the other day.

The difference in my husband and most, LDS or NOT, he is honest and hardworking, therefor we will succeed anywhere no matter what business we do. I have no concerns about that. It only takes people so long to figure out when they are being taken, LDS or NOT, and no one wants to be taken or lied too, NO ONE!

I will check back later and reply more in depth about the post, gotta run!!
Old 08-09-2007, 05:52 PM
Location: Outside Newcastle
281 posts, read 1,076,788 times
Reputation: 115
Blondie offers a compeling view of life in Utah from the eyes of someone who lives there. Especially the statement that drug trafficing and manufacturing are a major problem. But not usage.
Old 08-09-2007, 06:07 PM
Location: Small town Texas, from Southern California
445 posts, read 1,601,786 times
Reputation: 79
Blondie & Areorick,

can you elaborate on the drug thing...it is a bit alarming to me...

We have some drugs here, but not a lot, atleast not that i know of, but we don't use at all, so i may just be blind to it.

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