U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Utah > St. George
 [Register]
St. George Washington County
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2013, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Red Mountain
1 posts, read 24,139 times
Reputation: 67

Advertisements

Hey folks. I'm sure the title of this thread will grab some attention and that's the point. Please, before you read, know that I am not trying to personally hurt anyone here. If you are offended by my remarks, however, I am not sorry. For it's what we know about ourselves inside that causes us to take offense to another's personal views. And I make no apologies for the things I say and feel. Please read this with an open mind/heart.

Caveat: this may be a bit long, so...

I give up Utah. You win. After years and years of visits and living here off and on for well over 12+ years(7 at the longest stretch) I am through! A man can only take so much ignorance and blatant idiocy. Not to mention constantly feeling like an outsider. Even as a member of the LDS faith where we're supposed to make each other feel welcomed. What I've seen and heard while living within the confines of the *beehive* asylum have completely turned me off to living here, the people here and their way of life.

A little background. I was born and raised in California. Just admit it, you hate me already. That's okay, I've gotten over that insecurity the locals seem to have about Californians. Particularly Southern Californians. A place which I am quite proud to be from, thanks. No, we don't think we're better than everyone else. I've never understood that ridiculous notion carried by so many in Utah. But I'm here to say that NOBODY is better than anyone, from anywhere, period. Ever.

I'm a heavy equipment operator by trade and was in the employ of a popular local contractor, when, upon discovering that I was from SoCal(hatred is an understatement here), somehow found it in his heart to drug test me for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Just a "random"... no biggie. When I passed the test, I was fired. Too bad he didn't think that he may get sued for wrongful termination. Well, that was my undoing here in "good ol' boy" country. After that incident I was never hired by a local company again. Although I did help build the new airport, that was an out of state contractor who paid VERY well. But as far as locally, there must be some blacklist because I went from being a very safe, very capable operator to a recluse. Thankfully my wife has been able to support us through the tough times.

That leads me to another point. If you expect to live in the St. George area and make any money, you better be working for yourself and nobody else. Upon moving back here from AZ in 2007, I was forced to take a pay cut of $8/hr at the first job I had. Why? I had no choice. Apparently people with valuable skills like myself are paid a pittance to do some very hard work. The wages in this state are horrendous. No wonder it's a welfare state that takes any federal assistance the second it's offered. Utah needs to cut the pork and start paying people what they're worth. It's pathetic.

Now here's the part I really hate typing. Please bear with me. Before moving back to Utah, I was struggling with a wretched alcohol and pill addiction and brought it with me when I came back. I was self medicating a very bad back and it got the best of me for a while. Nearly lost everything important to me. During this time I did some very stupid things to obtain pills. Forgery, fraud, etc. Things I deeply, deeply regret but also feel as if I have moved on from. (rehab, repentance, forgiveness, etc.)

Well, in Utah, there always seems to be someone willing to remind you of just how bad you once were. My wife and I had been asked to give the prayers in church one Sunday not long ago. Seeing as we were never asked to do anything before, we got excited. I dressed in my best suit and the wife in her pretty blue dress. Our names were even on the program... hey, that's cool to me. We sat waiting patiently when, for some odd reason, the counselor calls upon someone else to say the opening prayer. Now this particular counselor also happened to be a local cop. A local cop that sat in the courthouse where I went before the judge for the crimes I mentioned in the former. Can you see where this is going? Turns out this so called "man-of-God" had been checking up on my case and keeping tabs on me(as my bishop would later point out). In his "opinion" neither my wife nor I were worthy to pray in *his* church. I was stunned. Absolutely stunned. I had made so much progress, SO MUCH! And to have this man deny me the opportunity to pray to my Lord for the strength of others damaged me to my core. Needless to say my wife and I were humiliated(she couldn't stop crying) and we got up and left church almost as fast as we had arrived. Kids in tow.

The man NEVER apologized to us. He didn't feel as if he had done anything wrong. Aces.

I have lived in Provo, Orem, Sandy, St. George, and now I'm out here in Ivins at the foot of Red Mountain. Somewhat isolated by Kayenta. It seems that no matter where I have lived in this state I cannot find people that don't sit in judgement of others no matter how hard they've tried to change their lives and become a better person. The level of self righteousness is dumbfounding. Anymore I just don't talk to people. It's gotten to the point where I simply can't trust anyone, at all. No matter how nice they are to me, I feel as if they're going to somehow let me down or stab me in the back. That's a pretty disparaging place to be. Especially when you're used to living where people accept you for who you are and not what you can bring to their church. I was happy when I lived outside of Utah. Now I'm miserable, have no friends, can't find solid "gainful" employment, have totally lost interest in going to church anymore and I'm even beginning to doubt the church itself. So many hypocrites. It's astounding. Please spare me the "whoopty-doo the church is true" rhetoric. I've had my fill.

Sadly, it's gotten to the point that I can't even stand the local dialect anymore. The Utah accent is annoying to me and comes off as a lazy way of speaking proper English. Pretty pathetic, right? And don't even get me started on the politics here. Talk about the dumb leading the dumber. Yup, that's where this has gone. Pettiness on my part. Therefore I must act...

So I'm leaving Utah and returning to Arizona. A place where I was well paid and appreciated for my work, where I had friends, where I wasn't judged for anything because people had better things to do with their time than keep tabs on my private life. A place where nobody cares if I'm a mormon or not because it just... doesn't... matter. I'm a person. I need acceptance among my peers. Not isolation and derision. I tried to hang in there, I really did. But like I said before, a man can only take so much. Utah is not the place for me and I'm making damn sure my children aren't going to grow up here either. I'm not keen on raising self righteous, ignorant, close-minded bigots.

So goodbye gorgeous vistas, beautiful red rock country, Powell on the weekend, The Bird, Park City and Brighton. Farewell Timpanogos backcountry in the winter with a snowboard attached to my back and snowshoes on my feet. See ya Mineral Basin... where my beloved dog Ted is buried in a majestic grove of aspen. So long Zion Nat'l Park with your amazing vistas that captured my heart from the time I was a little boy right up until today. I'll miss you Moab... we didn't get to spend nearly enough time together. Be seeing you, Big Rock Candy Mtns. Thanks for all the gorgeous views while driving along the 89. Adios Bryce Canyon, Cedar Breaks, Pine Valley, Duck Creek, Navajo Lake and Fish Lake. May your winds blow safely and your waters run clear. And to all the other wonderful and amazing places I have seen and been in this state I bid a fond adieu. Thankfully the Utah outdoors has more than made up for what I couldn't find from my peers.

If you've read this whole thing, well, thanks. Again, I mean no ill will here. Just had to get this all off my chest. Honesty is my only excuse.

peace and love,
redmountainrider

ps: If you respond, do so in kind, please. I'm not here to fight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2013, 11:21 PM
 
Location: USA
498 posts, read 1,066,683 times
Reputation: 418
Dude, you're not gonna be happy anywhere. I wish paranoia only lived in Utah but it's actually in your head. Have a fun life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Washington, UT
160 posts, read 325,842 times
Reputation: 313
Red,

Since you chose to be bold, I’ll follow your lead as I felt compelled to respond. I’m from Illinois, land of corruption and fiscal irresponsibility (basically California–lite). We moved to Utah because IL had become an unfriendly place to raise a family with conservative values. We happen to be happy so far with our decision and maybe just got lucky finding a terrific neighborhood and church (with several neighbors from California, who are all good people by the way). I really wish your experience was different. Just consider the grass may not be much greener on the other side – there are always trade-offs.

As I read your story, I was struck by the obstacles you’ve overcome. Some of those from admittedly poor decisions and some from circumstances beyond your control. I commend you for taking responsibility to change your life. You chose wisely when you could have easily continued down the wrong path. There is power in that. Let me assure you we’re all just a bunch of people who have messed up, blown it, failed and missed the mark more times than we’d like to admit (and those who deny this are just not being honest). For some of us, we’ve found forgiveness, meaning and purpose for our lives in Christ. After all, everyone’s born with a God shaped hole in their heart. Most of us try to put everything we can in there to “fill” it (drugs, alcohol, sex, you name it). The problem, there’s only one thing that can fill that hole. Until I figured that out, I drifted aimlessly.

In my humble opinion,it sounds like what you experienced was religion (legalism) instead of relationship (grace). Many of us Christians (and I’ve experienced it in many denominations) seem to have a knack for our religion, which often seems to serve the purpose of pushing people further away from God, instead of bringing them closer. Religion sets people up to fail because it punishes imperfection (spoiler alert - we're all imperfect). It’s quite a heavy burden. So, how do you know if you have religion or grace? Timothy Keller, in his book Center Church shares: “In religion, you obey, therefore you are accepted. With grace, you are accepted, therefore you obey. In religion, motivation is based on fear and insecurity. With grace, motivation is based on grateful joy. In religion, you obey God in order to get things from God. With grace, you obey God to get God, to delight in and resemble Him.” There’s a huge difference. Don’t be discouraged - once you find it, you can really be happy anywhere. While God never promised life would be easy, he did promise he would always be by our side.

The good news is there are churches out there (yes, even in St. George), that frown on religion and embrace the gospel. Wherever you eventually end up, I implore you to search one out. I also remind you this world is not our home. It’s messed up, broken and going in the wrong direction. We should just be biding our time here, doing the best we can to share God’s love. I’m sorry, but how you were treated was not with the same love and forgiveness God showers down on us each day. That’s all more the reason to seek out a place where it is. Can you imagine the difference it’ll make?

Red, it sounds like you’ve had the chance to really enjoy the area, something many locals take for granted. You are quite fortunate to have made the most of it! Best wishes, love and prayers on finding what you seek!

Last edited by GoOutsideAndPlay; 06-27-2013 at 12:28 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge
2,422 posts, read 2,523,790 times
Reputation: 2445
To the OP, you definitely need to move on and leave Utah. It's not working out for you. If the forgery and fraud is on your record than it may be hard to land a job ANYWHERE you go if a background check is performed. References will also be an issue from that popular local St. George contractor you mentioned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2013, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 39,988,228 times
Reputation: 10157
I felt the need to respond but in a nice way, because I love Utah and it's people. Spent a great deal of time there in my days. Cedar City to be specific. But as all one hit one post wonders do, they come post a rant and never come back to read the replies to their post. I checked his log and he has not been back since he wrote that.

Oh well......he's obviously an intelligent man and thought he might be looking for a publisher for his novel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2013, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Southern New Jersey
170 posts, read 466,652 times
Reputation: 386
I can say this much-I applaud you for your honesty and candor, but am ashamed to know that there are many so-called "Christians" who are anything but. No one religion can say that they're better than another. God and his word does teach forgiveness, yet in many cases God forgives, and man doesn't. As a Christian I'd wonder how I'd fit in in St. George or elsewhere in Utah. Would I be accepted because I'm not LDS? I don't know. Would I be shunned locally because I'm not "one of them"? I don't know. But whether the LDS church and it's members are not really Christian isn't the issue. But whatever they did to go out of their way to destroy you isn't right regardless. And as far as your actions go-none of us are immune to making mistakes in life, and sometimes our mistakes follow us because of repercussions. Honestly you sound as if you got off lucky. But becoming bitter isn't the answer either. I understand bitterness. It can eat you alive if you allow it to. You had a bad experience, but I'm sure that not everyone in Utah is like the people you and your wife encountered. Make no mistake there's plenty of people in Az (and all the other states) who would rake you over the coals if they found out about your past. That's everywhere, and part of the humanness of us all. I'm not sure how/if/when you will heal, but you need to do more than physically move on. Just my humble opinion for what it's worth. I'm been in many states, and no place is nirvana. You can find your own paradise and have it shattered in a moment by anyone. I lived in Tucson for 10yrs, and they were some of the best years of my life. But stuff happens. Don't let bitterness literally eat you alive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Saint George Utah
18 posts, read 49,669 times
Reputation: 45
Well Said! :-))
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Temecula
112 posts, read 316,690 times
Reputation: 90
I was in St. George in may of this year. I ate at a few places, one on old town, one on the south east end of town. Both had what I'd describe as locals dining. I went to a local bike shop. Stayed at a hotel. Visited in n out, Costco. I've been around the block a little by now, and by no means can I judge everyone by their appearance, but to me the town has changed. The people I saw looked very current and fit. Dressed in running gear, using smart phones. Both men and women. Thin 50 something's with trend clothes on. Young people with tattoos and current hairstyles. People using smartphones and $5k mountain bikes. Menus with organic foods. Sure I saw some very humbly dressed Mormon women at Costco, but they were the minority. Most of the other people I saw looked like they could be from my hometown of Temecula, CA. I'm sure there are some intolerant judgemental people there, but I didn't see that during my brief stay. I can tell you that there are people like that anywhere.

I wish you luck on your journey. I hope you are wrong about St. George. I'm not LDS, but hope they'd make for good neighbors.

Last edited by Tool Shed; 08-21-2013 at 10:12 PM.. Reason: Typi
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Saint George, Utah
99 posts, read 236,309 times
Reputation: 76
I live here. Where did you see menus with organic foods?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2013, 11:47 AM
 
404 posts, read 855,633 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Shed View Post
I was in St. George in may of this year. I ate at a few places, one on old town, one on the south east end of town. Both had what I'd describe as locals dining. I went to a local bike shop. Stayed at a hotel. Visited in n out, Costco. I've been around the block a little by now, and by no means can I judge everyone by their appearance, but to me the town has changed. The people I saw looked very current and fit. Dressed in running gear, using smart phones. Both men and women. Thin 50 something's with trend clothes on. Young people with tattoos and current hairstyles. People using smartphones and $5k mountain bikes. Menus with organic foods. Sure I saw some very humbly dressed Mormon women at Costco, but they were the minority. Most of the other people I saw looked like they could be from my hometown of Temecula, CA. I'm sure there are some intolerant judgemental people there, but I didn't see that during my brief stay. I can tell you that there are people like that anywhere.

I wish you luck on your journey. I hope you are wrong about St. George. I'm not LDS, but hope they'd make for good neighbors.
You can't judge a book by its cover. Come and live in any community in Utah and you will better understand some of the OPs original findings. The " modestly" dressed women you are talking about are FLDS a totally different population.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2013 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $99,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Utah > St. George
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top