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Old 01-13-2018, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Evanston & Lake Forest, Illinois
1,398 posts, read 673,223 times
Reputation: 1747

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill120 View Post
To me, St George is very much LDS land. Its where Mormonism started and they , the system, don't not believe in diversity. For example city council all LDS, no diversity in religions, and don't speak about race. This place treats minorities like 3rd class citizens, I have had friends that are non Caucasian that have told me HORROR stories, if your black you are treated so bad, its amazing, and sad for a city in the US to be so regressive. It is not everyone, of course, but it is so ingrained in this place. If you are a minority I suggest don't stay here. The courts, will not treat you fairly and neither will the jobs, if you get hired at all. You will be accused of all types of things, and treated not like a human being should be treated, especially if you are Non Mormon.
While the St. George area is predominately LDS (Mormon), it is not where the Latter Day Saint movement has its origins. The Latter Day Saint movement originated in Upstate New York in the 1820s and 1830s. I can't imagine that St. George is anymore racist than anywhere else in the United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill120 View Post
Deseret industries has a sigh LDS employment, why is this allowed? would you have a sign that says Catholic employment, no, and you shouldn't. This should be against federal laws, but they allow this here.

Car dealerships, owned by a Mormon, basically no others. Go to Vegas to buy a car, and be treated better, with a better price.
Deseret Industries is a non-profit organization that is a division of Welfare Services of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Due to its status as a religious institution, it is allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion and other factors that would be illegal in a traditional business enterprise. Catholic Charities, Catholic schools, Jewish schools, etc. have the same rights.

I don't know what you are trying to insinuate when you claim that the car dealerships are owned by a Mormon. What does that have to do with anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill120 View Post
One Hospital , Inter-mountain, worst hospital I have ever been to, no choice, no diversity. Very hard to get a good Dr here, good ones leave because they are paid like slaves here. I know, as I know people that work and have worked at Inter-mountain, also Mormon based hospital, with sister wives working there.
Intermountain Healthcare is very well regarded nationally. It is not a "Mormon based hospital." It is true that Intermountain Healthcare has its origins connected to the LDS Church. It was originally The Health Services Corporation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, the LDS Church decided to cease operating the hospitals and donated them to a newfound secular non-profit called Intermountain Healthcare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill120 View Post
The LDS influence here is one of exclusion, if you don't want to be one of them they basically ostracize you. I'm letting others know if your not LDS you are going to have many issues here, its not a great place to live. Everyone obviously can make their own decision. Best of Luck to you. I wish it was better here, but the lack of diversity is a real issue, that is not getting better. If you have questions, I would be happy to reply honestly.
There is not widespread institutionalized discrimination against people who are not LDS in St. George or elsewhere in Utah. Few Latter-day Saints discriminate against people who are not LDS. I know a number people who are not LDS (all from Chicago) who find their predominately LDS communities in St. George very hospitable, and they feel like they are part of the community.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:42 PM
 
9,129 posts, read 9,215,624 times
Reputation: 28591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill120 View Post
I have lived in St George for over 3 years. I came here with open arms, not knowing much about LDS, I didn't want to prejudge them and actually felt in general they had good values.

I have experienced problems with this city, yes in has its positive, physical beauty, easy to get around, costs can be good. I'm semi retired. I don't work here, I work out of my home.

To me, St George is very much LDS land. Its where Mormonism started and they , the system, don't not believe in diversity. For example city council all LDS, no diversity in religions, and don't speak about race. This place treats minorities like 3rd class citizens, I have had friends that are non Caucasian that have told me HORROR stories, if your black you are treated so bad, its amazing, and sad for a city in the US to be so regressive. It is not everyone, of course, but it is so ingrained in this place. If you are a minority I suggest don't stay here. The courts, will not treat you fairly and neither will the jobs, if you get hired at all. You will be accused of all types of things, and treated not like a human being should be treated, especially if you are Non Mormon.

Quite a series of generalizations for a city and county that contains about 130,000 people now. No place is perfect, but the bald statements here are too voluminous to even try to refute.

Deseret industries has a sigh LDS employment, why is this allowed? would you have a sign that says Catholic employment, no, and you shouldn't. This should be against federal laws, but they allow this here.

Deseret Industries is behaving in a legal manner. DI is a charitable arm of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Federal employment law allows churches to discriminate in favor of their own members when it comes to employment within a church or religious organization. Its something that should be understood.

Car dealerships, owned by a Mormon, basically no others. Go to Vegas to buy a car, and be treated better, with a better price.

We should have a law against Mormons owning car dealerships, I suppose, because they will just cheat you blind I wonder what there is about those Mormons when they own a car dealership? Do they just go hog wild?

One Hospital , Inter-mountain, worst hospital I have ever been to, no choice, no diversity. Very hard to get a good Dr here, good ones leave because they are paid like slaves here. I know, as I know people that work and have worked at Inter-mountain, also Mormon based hospital, with sister wives working there.

IHC hospitals have won awards for the quality of care they provide patients. IHC does a comparatively good job of keeping medical care and insurance costs low. St. George is full of physicians. The phone book shows family doctors, obstetricians, pediatricians, dermatologists, cardiologists, orthopedic surgeons, general surgeons, and plastic surgeons. I'm sure some polygamists work in the hospitals. They are entitled to a job like anyone else if they apply and have better qualifications than other applicants. Why does one hospital in town surprise you? The city has a population of only about 70,000? Would you expect multiple hospitals in such a place?

The LDS influence here is one of exclusion, if you don't want to be one of them they basically ostracize you. I'm letting others know if your not LDS you are going to have many issues here, its not a great place to live. Everyone obviously can make their own decision. Best of Luck to you. I wish it was better here, but the lack of diversity is a real issue, that is not getting better. If you have questions, I would be happy to reply honestly.
I'm sure the social situation is an issue for non-LDS people. Much has been written on this forum about it. Ultimately though, you can't force people to associate and befriend someone if they do not want to do so. Its something to consider when you move anywhere. You are starting over.

A note to others: This sounds more like tall tales and exaggerations to me than a bonafide experience in an area.


*My replies in bold
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,864 posts, read 21,987,770 times
Reputation: 10619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruko View Post
While the St. George area is predominately LDS (Mormon), it is not where the Latter Day Saint movement has its origins. The Latter Day Saint movement originated in Upstate New York in the 1820s and 1830s. I can't imagine that St. George is anymore racist than anywhere else in the United States.

Deseret Industries is a non-profit organization that is a division of Welfare Services of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Due to its status as a religious institution, it is allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion and other factors that would be illegal in a traditional business enterprise. Catholic Charities, Catholic schools, Jewish schools, etc. have the same rights.

I don't know what you are trying to insinuate when you claim that the car dealerships are owned by a Mormon. What does that have to do with anything?

Intermountain Healthcare is very well regarded nationally. It is not a "Mormon based hospital." It is true that Intermountain Healthcare has its origins connected to the LDS Church. It was originally The Health Services Corporation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, the LDS Church decided to cease operating the hospitals and donated them to a newfound secular non-profit called Intermountain Healthcare.

There is not widespread institutionalized discrimination against people who are not LDS in St. George or elsewhere in Utah. Few Latter-day Saints discriminate against people who are not LDS. I know a number people who are not LDS (all from Chicago) who find their predominately LDS communities in St. George very hospitable, and they feel like they are part of the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
[b][b]Quite a series of generalizations for a city and county that contains about 130,000 people now. No place is perfect, but the bald statements here are too voluminous to even try to refute.

Deseret Industries is behaving in a legal manner. DI is a charitable arm of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Federal employment law allows churches to discriminate in favor of their own members when it comes to employment within a church or religious organization. Its something that should be understood.

We should have a law against Mormons owning car dealerships, I suppose, because they will just cheat you blind I wonder what there is about those Mormons when they own a car dealership? Do they just go hog wild?

IHC hospitals have won awards for the quality of care they provide patients. IHC does a comparatively good job of keeping medical care and insurance costs low. St. George is full of physicians. The phone book shows family doctors, obstetricians, pediatricians, dermatologists, cardiologists, orthopedic surgeons, general surgeons, and plastic surgeons. I'm sure some polygamists work in the hospitals. They are entitled to a job like anyone else if they apply and have better qualifications than other applicants. Why does one hospital in town surprise you? The city has a population of only about 70,000? Would you expect multiple hospitals in such a place?

I'm sure the social situation is an issue for non-LDS people. Much has been written on this forum about it. Ultimately though, you can't force people to associate and befriend someone if they do not want to do so. Its something to consider when you move anywhere. You are starting over.

A note to others: This sounds more like tall tales and exaggerations to me than a bonafide experience in an area.
Thank you, Hiruku and Mark, for your comments. When I first saw Bill120's post, I was tempted to respond as the two of you have. But then, something told me that this was a guy we were going to see just one post from, the kind of person who drops by City-Data and gets an account just long enough to vent his feelings. Once he's done that, he's off to find his next soapbox. Turns out I was right, but I'm glad the two of you took the time I was too lazy to do.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:51 AM
 
306 posts, read 467,877 times
Reputation: 1000
St George has an element of highly aggressive culture that is not parallel to that of the SLC (or Provo) area. There is widespread support for the Bundy clan, and a kind of wild west "sit down and shut up if you're not descended from the pioneers" culture that absolutely is present. It's not as prevailing as it was 15 years ago, but do not kid yourself that St. George and northern Utah are culturally the same. A lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. I suggest that anyone who doesn't believe those of us who live in the region when we discuss these issues spend a couple of months checking the "St George News" facebook page and read the comments. The nasty things that people are willing to say to each other in print down here using their real names are mind blowing when they really get going.

For the record, I see it as a regional culture issue more than a specifically LDS issue because it does not mirror my experience with LDS even in Cedar City.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,864 posts, read 21,987,770 times
Reputation: 10619
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedarite View Post
For the record, I see it as a regional culture issue more than a specifically LDS issue because it does not mirror my experience with LDS even in Cedar City.
Thanks for the clarification. That's good to know.
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