Newly married, Non Mormon moving to St. George (Hinckley: job transfer, movies)

[Thunderbomb82]

I think it's kind of a risk you are going to have to take and or decide for yourself. I'm not sure on the mormon percentages but I think it's greater than sixty percent. I am not mormon and choose not to live in Utah because of it. I do not want everyone to condone me for having a drink or a smoke. That's just me

[Lmejh]

Originally Posted by katjazzlover

I grew up in Utah as a non mormon and was discriminated against all my childhood life because of this fact. All those people care about is their "temple marriages", how many baptisms for the dead they can do and whether or not the men in the family hold a position in the bishopric of their ward. Women are treated like second class citizens and are only considered baby making machines. Remember the more kids you have the higher in heaven you go. Growing up in and living in Utah was the worst experience in my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If you aren't Mormon you will be considered an outcast. Your children won't have friends or date because you aren't Mormon. They will also bombard you and try to get you to convert. You should watch the Godmakers Part I and II to understand the religion as a whole. If you can avoid Utah as a whole, you should do so. Don't make the same mistakes my parents did.

Please, please, take the above post with a grain of salt. I am a non-Mormon college student that grew up in Utah and have experienced and witnessed the opposite. I'm not, or ever was, considered an outcast. I got plenty of Mormon friends and dates. No one's tried to convert me - not even once. Yeah, a missionary has shown up at my door but who hasn't had them?

Oh, and the God Makers I and II are borderline farces - I was left with a bad taste in my mouth after I watched ten minutes of it... Ed Decker is quite a nut.

[katjazzlover]

Grain of salt???? Everything I have said is true. Do you know anything about the mormon religion? The God Makers I and II are right on. They do baptisms for the dead, they marry by proxy for the dead, they believe in seven levels of heaven and the more kids you have the higher in heaven you go. They also believe that in order for a woman to make it to heaven, she has to be married to a man in the temple. If everything is on the up and up, then why do they shrowd in secrecy every thing they do. They don't believe in equality for all people...only if you are white and mormon. They believe black people are spawns of satan. I mean the list goes on. Instead of taking a grain of salt, why don't you open your eyes to what is really going on around you. MOVING TO SOUTHERN UTAH IS A HUGE MISTAKE!! I would also venture to guess that Lmejh is probably a transplant to St. George and attends Dixie College. I wish her the best of luck and hope they don't ruin her as they did me.

[PINAYPIE]

I'm an Asian and also non-mormon. I was worried about getting stationed at the bAse here because of that fact. I've been to St. G and I think it's a great place for retirees, but I don't know about raising kids . Living in Utah for the last 4 years for me has been tolerable but I can't wait to leave.

[Lmejh]

Originally Posted by katjazzlover

Grain of salt???? Everything I have said is true. Do you know anything about the mormon religion? The God Makers I and II are right on. They do baptisms for the dead, they marry by proxy for the dead, they believe in seven levels of heaven and the more kids you have the higher in heaven you go. They also believe that in order for a woman to make it to heaven, she has to be married to a man in the temple. If everything is on the up and up, then why do they shrowd in secrecy every thing they do. They don't believe in equality for all people...only if you are white and mormon. They believe black people are spawns of satan. I mean the list goes on. Instead of taking a grain of salt, why don't you open your eyes to what is really going on around you. MOVING TO SOUTHERN UTAH IS A HUGE MISTAKE!! I would also venture to guess that Lmejh is probably a transplant to St. George and attends Dixie College. I wish her the best of luck and hope they don't ruin her as they did me.

Alright...
Yes, I knew every belief of the LDS you listed. No surprise to me... I know they believe they are the only true church (and I see nothing wrong with that) but them not believing in equality and whatnot? Give me a break. By the way, I (a male, not a female) live in Salt Lake City and have lived there all my life - hence my location reading "East Millcreek". They haven't ruined me and they never will...

Oh, you probably should talk to a Mormon to see what they actually believe instead of getting it from a twenty-five year-old movie made by some disenfranchised former Mormon. But I digress

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by katjazzlover

Grain of salt???? Everything I have said is true.

you wanna provide source info about the truthfulness of which you speak? just to cross our t's and dot our i's and stuff...

Do you know anything about the mormon religion? The God Makers I and II are right on.

nontruth #1. do you know anything about the mormon religion? if so, from what sources?

They do baptisms for the dead, they marry by proxy for the dead,

tell us what baptisms for the dead are, and marriages for the dead, so that we now what kind of satanspawn we are dealing with. you have to elaborate, cuz not everyone knows what they refer to.

they believe in seven levels of heaven and the more kids you have the higher in heaven you go.

#2. so far, it looks like the godmakers weren't actually 'right on' if this is where you are getting your info from. we're already at falsehood #2, and we've just barely started.

i'd be interested in hearing your source though for this one as well (feel free to admit it if it was the godmakers), as it is one of the more creative accusations that i've heard. incidentally, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a religion that believes more children equals more celestial glory. it just means more mouths to feed in the mortal world. but again, to clarify, mormons don't believe this, nor is it a part of our doctrine. try again.

They also believe that in order for a woman to make it to heaven, she has to be married to a man in the temple.

#3. you're batting pretty low here. we believe that in order for her to get into the highest level of heaven, she needs to be married in the temple. but before you start your rant about gender equality (because i'm willing to put money on it that this was the direction you were headed in...), in order for a man to get to that same highest level of the celestial kingdom, he also has to be eternally married in the temple. take a guess as to who he has to be married to–i dare ya.

If everything is on the up and up, then why do they shrowd in secrecy every thing they do.

we don't really 'shrowd' anything in secrecy. there are private matters and public matters. individual worship is not usually public, but that doesn't make it secret. in fact, go to any of the church websites and you can find out about even temple ordinances. some secret.

They don't believe in equality for all people...only if you are white and mormon.

#.... hold on, i have to go back to count.... #4. skin color is a temporary physical trait that has bearing on this life only. for all i know, i will have blue skin like an enlightened buddha when i am ressurrected.

next, mormon is not even a real term in our church as far as denominational names go. it is a nickname given us by others that we sometimes lazily have used for ourselves.

i will assume for the sake of argument that you refer to 'member of the lds church' when you are talking about the people that we supposedly think are superior. again, falsehood.

are you lying on purpose or are you just ignorantly repeating what you watched in the movie?

mormons are as fallible as anyone else, scientologists, atheists, and wiccans included. the only thing that we believe separates us from the rest of the world is modern day revelation, which specifically tells us not to boast of our own strengths, and the authority of the priesthood that has come through that same source. i know for a fact that there are holier-than-thou mormons out there, and there will always be the haughty and the prideful among every group (yours included, whatever group that might be), but it is not churchwide, despite your claims, and it is not what we are taught to believe. just the opposite in fact.

They believe black people are spawns of satan.

#5 i think. wrong again. i will refer you to the blue skin comment of #4. if a black person is the spawn of satan, then so am i (cuz we all go back to the same adam and eve; remember them?), but my wife would probably say that i am regardless...

I mean the list goes on.

no, it doesn't. so far you are 0/5. if this list goes on, feel free to keep swinging, and i'll see if we can strike you out another couple of innings.

i suppose that you did say that we believe in baptisms/marriages for the dead. so i guess you are technically 1/6. better than some of the antimormons in this forum. kudos!

Instead of taking a grain of salt, why don't you open your eyes to what is really going on around you. MOVING TO SOUTHERN UTAH IS A HUGE MISTAKE!!

really? how do explain the plethora of nonmormons that are content and blissful in their utah homes, even surrounded by slavering, bile-slurping mormons as they are?

I would also venture to guess that Lmejh is probably a transplant to St. George and attends Dixie College. I wish her the best of luck and hope they don't ruin her as they did me.

i would venture that you just made a faulty assumption on many counts. we all know the saying about assumptions, so i won't spell it out, though i wanna...

i would also venture that your post is littered with logical fallacies, mostly of the sweeping generalization and emotional response varieties, and that it is therefore entirely suspect. not to mention that your sole source as stated up to this point is a blatantly antimormon movie. what kind of popcorn did you eat when watching that? it might have given you indigestion.

i would also note that technically, no one can 'ruin' you except for you. if you are miserable, bitter, and mean, that is your choice, not the choice of the mormons, nonmormons, presbyterians, or aliens down the street. environment certainly helps to shape who you become, but it is you that is doing the becoming. so good job.

*********

now, any more religious, and we'll have to take this to another forum. but the 'everything that you said that was true' has been pretty thoroughly denied, and in my opinion–biased as it is–pretty thoroughly stomped.

i am a mormon. we don't believe the things with which we were accused. they are false accusations. they are not valid, truthful, reality-based representations of mormon relgion in any sense of the phrase. that should be clear now. if not, feel free to start yet another thread about it in the religion forum, and send us the link.

***********

now, getting back to how your posts relate to the op. what was it again? ah yes, st george.

I grew up in Utah as a non mormon and was discriminated against all my childhood life because of this fact. All those people care about is their "temple marriages", how many baptisms for the dead they can do and whether or not the men in the family hold a position in the bishopric of their ward. Women are treated like second class citizens and are only considered baby making machines. Remember the more kids you have the higher in heaven you go. Growing up in and living in Utah was the worst experience in my life. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If you aren't Mormon you will be considered an outcast. Your children won't have friends or date because you aren't Mormon. They will also bombard you and try to get you to convert. You should watch the Godmakers Part I and II to understand the religion as a whole. If you can avoid Utah as a whole, you should do so. Don't make the same mistakes my parents did.

#6, #7, #8, #9, and #2 repeated (well, except that this was the first post, but whatever). just for the sake of clarification....

i am sorry that you were rejected by whatever mormons you grew up around. it does happen, and i am fully aware of it. there are stupid mormons everywhere, similar to how there are stupid people of every nationality and religion everywhere.

anyone moving to utah had better take seriously the fact that it does happen.

but in my long years of social interaction upon the face of this earth, within utah and without, i have come to a few conclusions about mormon vs antimormon relations, and i'll share a few here in all sincerity and seriousness.

there are some things that you can do, upon moving to utah, to make sure that you are not discriminated against.

#1: don't go in expecting to be a victim. if you do that, you will see it everywhere, even where it doesn't exist. this is crucial to *any* relationship, whether marriage, siblings, dating, friends, etc. ask any counselor, any successfully married spouses, or anyone else with any measure of social experience.

#2: if a mormon is aloof, it doesn't make him a jerk automatically. people are people everywhere, and even mormons are busy, worried, workaholic people. even we wonder about the national deficit, the bacon flu (ahem, influenze A (n1h1) or whatever it is called), and other things. give us the benefit of the doubt, and we will do so to you as well.

#3: if a mormon is aloof, it doesn't mean that they are purposefully trying to avoid you or be mean to you. some mormons are shy too. my wife is dreadfully shy, and ends up making people think that she doesn't like them. guess what she complains about in the mean time? that no one approaches her. well of course not; they all think that she would stab them in the eyeballs or something. again, we're human too; i know that this goes against the popular opinion as portrayed by most evangelical churches, etc, but it is the truth.

#4: if a mormon is friendly, it doesn't automatically mean that they are trying to convert you. believe it or not, most mormons are normal people, and want normal relationships with others, including nonmormons and even former mormons. check my facebook account....

#5: i will reiterate the giving of the benefit of a doubt. too many times we make snap judgments about people and shoot them down before they ever have a chance to show us who they really are. some women are horribly infamous for this, but men do it too. in particular, we do it in order to nurse our prejudices and hurts. if you find yourself doing it, chances are good that you have some deep-seated resentment toward who/whatever it is that you are hastily judging. if you do not find yourself doing it, but insist on making blanket statements and other logical fallacies, chances are good that you have some deep-seated issues, and you just don't want to deal with them.

there are probably a few more, but my brain is tired, so i'll let someone else take it at #6 if they feel so inclined.

g'night, and happy tuesday!

aaron out.

[katjazzlover]

Obviously I rattled your cage or you would not have found it necessary to reply so strongly to my posts. That's okay. Live in your denial. The truth hurts anyway... As for St. George...yes nice weather, up to date shopping...you've come a long way!!

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by stycotl

you wanna provide source info about the truthfulness of which you speak? just to cross our t's and dot our i's and stuff...

nontruth #1. do you know anything about the mormon religion? if so, from what sources?

tell us what baptisms for the dead are, and marriages for the dead, so that we now what kind of satanspawn we are dealing with. you have to elaborate, cuz not everyone knows what they refer to.

#2. so far, it looks like the godmakers weren't actually 'right on' if this is where you are getting your info from. we're already at falsehood #2, and we've just barely started.

i'd be interested in hearing your source though for this one as well (feel free to admit it if it was the godmakers), as it is one of the more creative accusations that i've heard. incidentally, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a religion that believes more children equals more celestial glory. it just means more mouths to feed in the mortal world. but again, to clarify, mormons don't believe this, nor is it a part of our doctrine. try again.

#3. you're batting pretty low here. we believe that in order for her to get into the highest level of heaven, she needs to be married in the temple. but before you start your rant about gender equality (because i'm willing to put money on it that this was the direction you were headed in...), in order for a man to get to that same highest level of the celestial kingdom, he also has to be eternally married in the temple. take a guess as to who he has to be married to–i dare ya.

we don't really 'shrowd' anything in secrecy. there are private matters and public matters. individual worship is not usually public, but that doesn't make it secret. in fact, go to any of the church websites and you can find out about even temple ordinances. some secret.

#.... hold on, i have to go back to count.... #4. skin color is a temporary physical trait that has bearing on this life only. for all i know, i will have blue skin like an enlightened buddha when i am ressurrected.

next, mormon is not even a real term in our church as far as denominational names go. it is a nickname given us by others that we sometimes lazily have used for ourselves.

i will assume for the sake of argument that you refer to 'member of the lds church' when you are talking about the people that we supposedly think are superior. again, falsehood.

are you lying on purpose or are you just ignorantly repeating what you watched in the movie?

mormons are as fallible as anyone else, scientologists, atheists, and wiccans included. the only thing that we believe separates us from the rest of the world is modern day revelation, which specifically tells us not to boast of our own strengths, and the authority of the priesthood that has come through that same source. i know for a fact that there are holier-than-thou mormons out there, and there will always be the haughty and the prideful among every group (yours included, whatever group that might be), but it is not churchwide, despite your claims, and it is not what we are taught to believe. just the opposite in fact.

#5 i think. wrong again. i will refer you to the blue skin comment of #4. if a black person is the spawn of satan, then so am i (cuz we all go back to the same adam and eve; remember them?), but my wife would probably say that i am regardless...

no, it doesn't. so far you are 0/5. if this list goes on, feel free to keep swinging, and i'll see if we can strike you out another couple of innings.

i suppose that you did say that we believe in baptisms/marriages for the dead. so i guess you are technically 1/6. better than some of the antimormons in this forum. kudos!

really? how do explain the plethora of nonmormons that are content and blissful in their utah homes, even surrounded by slavering, bile-slurping mormons as they are?

i would venture that you just made a faulty assumption on many counts. we all know the saying about assumptions, so i won't spell it out, though i wanna...

i would also venture that your post is littered with logical fallacies, mostly of the sweeping generalization and emotional response varieties, and that it is therefore entirely suspect. not to mention that your sole source as stated up to this point is a blatantly antimormon movie. what kind of popcorn did you eat when watching that? it might have given you indigestion.

i would also note that technically, no one can 'ruin' you except for you. if you are miserable, bitter, and mean, that is your choice, not the choice of the mormons, nonmormons, presbyterians, or aliens down the street. environment certainly helps to shape who you become, but it is you that is doing the becoming. so good job.

*********

now, any more religious, and we'll have to take this to another forum. but the 'everything that you said that was true' has been pretty thoroughly denied, and in my opinion–biased as it is–pretty thoroughly stomped.

i am a mormon. we don't believe the things with which we were accused. they are false accusations. they are not valid, truthful, reality-based representations of mormon relgion in any sense of the phrase. that should be clear now. if not, feel free to start yet another thread about it in the religion forum, and send us the link.

***********

now, getting back to how your posts relate to the op. what was it again? ah yes, st george.

#6, #7, #8, #9, and #2 repeated (well, except that this was the first post, but whatever). just for the sake of clarification....

i am sorry that you were rejected by whatever mormons you grew up around. it does happen, and i am fully aware of it. there are stupid mormons everywhere, similar to how there are stupid people of every nationality and religion everywhere.

anyone moving to utah had better take seriously the fact that it does happen.

but in my long years of social interaction upon the face of this earth, within utah and without, i have come to a few conclusions about mormon vs antimormon relations, and i'll share a few here in all sincerity and seriousness.

there are some things that you can do, upon moving to utah, to make sure that you are not discriminated against.

#1: don't go in expecting to be a victim. if you do that, you will see it everywhere, even where it doesn't exist. this is crucial to *any* relationship, whether marriage, siblings, dating, friends, etc. ask any counselor, any successfully married spouses, or anyone else with any measure of social experience.

#2: if a mormon is aloof, it doesn't make him a jerk automatically. people are people everywhere, and even mormons are busy, worried, workaholic people. even we wonder about the national deficit, the bacon flu (ahem, influenze A (n1h1) or whatever it is called), and other things. give us the benefit of the doubt, and we will do so to you as well.

#3: if a mormon is aloof, it doesn't mean that they are purposefully trying to avoid you or be mean to you. some mormons are shy too. my wife is dreadfully shy, and ends up making people think that she doesn't like them. guess what she complains about in the mean time? that no one approaches her. well of course not; they all think that she would stab them in the eyeballs or something. again, we're human too; i know that this goes against the popular opinion as portrayed by most evangelical churches, etc, but it is the truth.

#4: if a mormon is friendly, it doesn't automatically mean that they are trying to convert you. believe it or not, most mormons are normal people, and want normal relationships with others, including nonmormons and even former mormons. check my facebook account....

#5: i will reiterate the giving of the benefit of a doubt. too many times we make snap judgments about people and shoot them down before they ever have a chance to show us who they really are. some women are horribly infamous for this, but men do it too. in particular, we do it in order to nurse our prejudices and hurts. if you find yourself doing it, chances are good that you have some deep-seated resentment toward who/whatever it is that you are hastily judging. if you do not find yourself doing it, but insist on making blanket statements and other logical fallacies, chances are good that you have some deep-seated issues, and you just don't want to deal with them.

there are probably a few more, but my brain is tired, so i'll let someone else take it at #6 if they feel so inclined.

g'night, and happy tuesday!

aaron out.

Great post, Aaron! I am one of those non-mormon, happy living in Utah people. Of course, you already knew that I am also a shy person. Many think I don't like them right from the getgo. You really have to get to know me first, just like your wife. I guess that would make me aloof, right? Even though I am not LDS, I also do the same things they might. Hmm....sounds almost like being...dare I say...human??

I wanna be on your facebook account. Is that possible? I mean, with you being LDS and all and I guess we aren't supposed to be friends or socialize...

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by katjazzlover

Obviously I rattled your cage or you would not have found it necessary to reply so strongly to my posts. That's okay. Live in your denial. The truth hurts anyway... As for St. George...yes nice weather, up to date shopping...you've come a long way!!

who are you replying to? did you actually read my post? how much of it did you read? do you have any real responses, or just more insults, accusations, and generalized claims?

does the truth that your entire argument so far consists of logical fallacies hurt? i would bet that one would sting...

in all honesty, i'm not sure that if you are refering to me, strong is the right description. i wasn't, in any sense of the word, harsh with you. i didn't preach hellfire and damnation (i'll leave that to other fanatically religious people–you know, the more socially acceptable ones...). i make heavy use of sarcasm in my posts, because i find it amusing, and it wouldn't be me if i didn't (and i certainly don't want to lie to anyone about who or what i am).

i don't live in any denial except for the issues that i have with my self-perceived invincibility, and my slowing metabolism (i try to convince myself that i can still eat as much as i used to without wearing it). there might be a few more issues to which i am unaware because of denial, but the mormon-nonmormon relations in utah is not one of them. in fact, i would daresay that i have a more realistic grasp of that issue than you (note the general lack of logical fallacies in my above post and this one, as compared to yours).

that doesn't make me smarter than you or anything. it just means that i have analyzed the situation a bit better than you and have gotten past the point where emotional spasms and sweeping generalizations are par for the course in my posts regarding the social dynamic.

you obviously don't like that idea or agree with it, so feel free to form a well-thought response to my above post, and we can learn together.

Originally Posted by kaytidid

Great post, Aaron! I am one of those non-mormon, happy living in Utah people. Of course, you already knew that I am also a shy person. Many think I don't like them right from the getgo. You really have to get to know me first, just like your wife. I guess that would make me aloof, right? Even though I am not LDS, I also do the same things they might. Hmm....sounds almost like being...dare I say...human??

I wanna be on your facebook account. Is that possible? I mean, with you being LDS and all and I guess we aren't supposed to be friends or socialize...

yeah, i'm pretty sure that the religion police would come and interrogate us both. the we-hate-mormons police would be sure to indoctrinate you with that movie katjazzlover was obviously subjected to, and the we-hate-gentiles police will be sure to go tell me to have more children so as to repent for my gentile-associating ways and earn a higher degree of glory!

but who cares. pm coming, facebook friend!

[Lmejh]

Originally Posted by katjazzlover

Obviously I rattled your cage or you would not have found it necessary to reply so strongly to my posts. That's okay. Live in your denial. The truth hurts anyway... As for St. George...yes nice weather, up to date shopping...you've come a long way!!

Well I'm glad we got that straightened out

But St George does have rather nice weather in the spring.