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Old 01-24-2012, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,059,680 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I'd say culture shock is too strong of a word. I don't feel a culture shock when I go up to St. Louis, even my very Southern friends don't notice the differences. Yes, if I lived up there, I would definitely notice more cultural differences than I do when I visit, but if I wanted to experience a true culture shock, I'd have to go to New York or somewhere far from the South.

and there aren't any major Southerner cities where most of the white population eats chitlins, collard greens, and plays banjos. I think you're more likely to find African Americans that do those things, but even then, it's mostly older people. Those things are viewed as "country" We're talking about cities here...
As kshe referenced, I was referring to a claim made by somebody else. With regards to Memphis and Louisville, those two cities have significant differences in culture, climate, architecture, demographics, dialects, and history, especially post-Civil War, compared to St. Louis. While there are some similarities, there are many more differences (in the areas I mentioned). You are the only person from Memphis I've ever met to claim they didn't experience culture shock when coming to St. Louis. All my friends that went to SLU from Memphis emphasized them constantly.

Last edited by stlouisan; 01-24-2012 at 11:33 PM..
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:36 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 4,554,684 times
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Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
As kshe referenced, I was referring to a claim made by somebody else. With regards to Memphis and Louisville, those two cities have significant differences in culture, climate, architecture, demographics, dialects, and history, especially post-Civil War, compared to St. Louis. While there are some similarities, there are many more differences (in the areas I mentioned). You are the only person from Memphis I've ever met to claim they didn't experience culture shock when coming to St. Louis. All my friends that went to SLU from Memphis emphasized them constantly.
To be honest, I dont think most people notice those things if they're just visiting for a day or two. I've brought so many friends up to St. Louis and I always ask them if they notice cultural and accent differences (yes, I actually ask this because it interests me a lot) but most of them say they dont notice any differences. And when I ask about the accent, they say something like "they just sound normal" But I do notice differences in accents. Especially when people say things like "maaaahm" for "mom" Very noticeable to me

I have a few friends that have been living there for the past couple years and they do notice differences now, but if you're just visiting it's hard to see those things. St. Louis is very all-American, so I think people from many different regions can visit and not feel a culture shock. In the same way that many Americans would feel comfortable in Ohio. Memphis is different, it's not as all-American, it's more specific to a region, the South. So I can see why you feel a culture shock there, but when I go to St. Louis, I dont feel one.

And what kinds of culture shocks should I be experiencing when I come up there? What did your Memphis friends specify?

some potential stereotypical ones i can think of:

-People say "soda" instead of "coke"
Well I actually grew up saying "soda" It wasn't until recently that I discovered that Memphians supposedly call everything a "coke" I didn't know. I still hear a lot of people say "soda"

-Sweet tea isn't served in most restaurants.
That's ok, I hardly ever drink sweet tea anyway. And there are several restaurants in Memphis that dont serve it either.

-Lots of Catholics instead of Baptists.
No biggie, I was raised Catholic and I like being around them. I actually see as many religious signs and bumper stickers in St. Louis as in Memphis.

-People don't say "yes ma'am/sir"
I wasn't raised to say it either. I only started doing it in high school. When my friends come up to St. Louis, they might slip out a "yes ma'am/sir" but it doesn't seem to phase people when it's said to them. Occasionally they'll say "I dont look that old, do I?" Kind of a culture shock, not a huge one though.

-People aren't as friendly.
But they come pretty close. I really like the people up there. And it's not like everyone in Memphis is friendly either.

- Schnucks instead of Kroger.
Memphis had a bunch of Schnucks for the past decade or so, then Kroger bought all of them just recently.

- More politically moderate instead of conservative.
That's ok, I'm moderate.

Things that would take some getting used to are not cultural, like the weather, the traffic, and the much larger amount of people living in a smaller area.

Last edited by Smtchll; 01-25-2012 at 12:24 AM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,444 posts, read 16,823,179 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
To be honest, I dont think most people notice those things if they're just visiting for a day or two. I've brought so many friends up to St. Louis and I always ask them if they notice cultural and accent differences (yes, I actually ask this because it interests me a lot) but most of them say they dont notice any differences. And when I ask about the accent, they say something like "they just sound normal" But I do notice differences in accents. Especially when people say things like "maaaahm" for "mom" Very noticeable to me

I have a few friends that have been living there for the past couple years and they do notice differences now, but if you're just visiting it's hard to see those things. St. Louis is very all-American, so I think people from many different regions can visit and not feel a culture shock. In the same way that many Americans would feel comfortable in Ohio. Memphis is different, it's not as all-American, it's more specific to a region, the South. So I can see why you feel a culture shock there, but when I go to St. Louis, I dont feel one.

And what kinds of culture shocks should I be experiencing when I come up there? What did your Memphis friends specify?

some potential stereotypical ones i can think of:

-People say "soda" instead of "coke"
Well I actually grew up saying "soda" It wasn't until recently that I discovered that Memphians supposedly call everything a "coke" I didn't know. I still hear a lot of people say "soda"

-Sweet tea isn't served in most restaurants.
That's ok, I hardly ever drink sweet tea anyway. And there are several restaurants in Memphis that dont serve it either.

-Lots of Catholics instead of Baptists.
No biggie, I was raised Catholic and I like being around them. I actually see as many religious signs and bumper stickers in St. Louis as in Memphis.

-People don't say "yes ma'am/sir"
I wasn't raised to say it either. I only started doing it in high school. When my friends come up to St. Louis, they might slip out a "yes ma'am/sir" but it doesn't seem to phase people when it's said to them. Occasionally they'll say "I dont look that old, do I?" Kind of a culture shock, not a huge one though.

-People aren't as friendly.
But they come pretty close. I really like the people up there. And it's not like everyone in Memphis is friendly either.

- Schnucks instead of Kroger.
Memphis had a bunch of Schnucks for the past decade or so, then Kroger bought all of them just recently.

- More politically moderate instead of conservative.
That's ok, I'm moderate.

Things that would take some getting used to are not cultural, like the weather, the traffic, and the much larger amount of people living in a smaller area.
Heres the thing.....not everyone is going to notice cultural differences in just a day or 2.
Some people just arent dialed in on it, you know?
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,059,680 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
To be honest, I dont think most people notice those things if they're just visiting for a day or two. I've brought so many friends up to St. Louis and I always ask them if they notice cultural and accent differences (yes, I actually ask this because it interests me a lot) but most of them say they dont notice any differences. And when I ask about the accent, they say something like "they just sound normal" But I do notice differences in accents. Especially when people say things like "maaaahm" for "mom" Very noticeable to me

I have a few friends that have been living there for the past couple years and they do notice differences now, but if you're just visiting it's hard to see those things. St. Louis is very all-American, so I think people from many different regions can visit and not feel a culture shock. In the same way that many Americans would feel comfortable in Ohio. Memphis is different, it's not as all-American, it's more specific to a region, the South. So I can see why you feel a culture shock there, but when I go to St. Louis, I dont feel one.

And what kinds of culture shocks should I be experiencing when I come up there? What did your Memphis friends specify?

some potential stereotypical ones i can think of:

-People say "soda" instead of "coke"
Well I actually grew up saying "soda" It wasn't until recently that I discovered that Memphians supposedly call everything a "coke" I didn't know. I still hear a lot of people say "soda"

-Sweet tea isn't served in most restaurants.
That's ok, I hardly ever drink sweet tea anyway. And there are several restaurants in Memphis that dont serve it either.

-Lots of Catholics instead of Baptists.
No biggie, I was raised Catholic and I like being around them. I actually see as many religious signs and bumper stickers in St. Louis as in Memphis.

-People don't say "yes ma'am/sir"
I wasn't raised to say it either. I only started doing it in high school. When my friends come up to St. Louis, they might slip out a "yes ma'am/sir" but it doesn't seem to phase people when it's said to them. Occasionally they'll say "I dont look that old, do I?" Kind of a culture shock, not a huge one though.

-People aren't as friendly.
But they come pretty close. I really like the people up there. And it's not like everyone in Memphis is friendly either.

- Schnucks instead of Kroger.
Memphis had a bunch of Schnucks for the past decade or so, then Kroger bought all of them just recently.

- More politically moderate instead of conservative.
That's ok, I'm moderate.

Things that would take some getting used to are not cultural, like the weather, the traffic, and the much larger amount of people living in a smaller area.
Those are typically the major cultural differences you'll see between a Midwestern city and a southern one. Dialect, cuisine, architecture, pace of the city, feel, religious and political views, etc. So if that's not culture shock, I don't know what is. St. Louis is more liberal than moderate, btw. Part of how it's not a major culture shock to you sounds relative more to you specifically, and not to Memphis. Schnuck's instead of Kroger...Memphis also has McDonald's and Hardee's...I never use chains or restaurants or grocery stores to define culture shock. People in St. Louis also don't say "y'all", "I'm fixin'," etc. Not to mention, St. Louis is more of a manufacturing Rust Belt city...Memphis is not...Memphis has a relatively small-town feel compared to St. Louis, and is much more laid back. Culture differences may have been a better term to use as opposed to culture shock. there are major cultural differences, that's for sure. Saying St. Louis and Memphis belong in the same region is grossly inaccurate. Having been to both Chicago and Memphis. St. Louis has much more in common with Chicago, especially from a modern standpoint.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,059,680 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Heres the thing.....not everyone is going to notice cultural differences in just a day or 2.
Some people just arent dialed in on it, you know?
How nobody notices the differences between St. Louis and Memphis. I knew right away I was in a different part of the country the first day there...it's not that difficult to pick up on.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,444 posts, read 16,823,179 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
How nobody notices the differences between St. Louis and Memphis. I knew right away I was in a different part of the country the first day there...it's not that difficult to pick up on.
Beats the hell out of me......must be the same kind of people that insist that rural Central Florida isnt Southern, and the same folks that insist that Ste Gen is Southern.
-shrugs-
Go figure.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:16 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 4,554,684 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Heres the thing.....not everyone is going to notice cultural differences in just a day or 2.
Some people just arent dialed in on it, you know?
But that's what I'm saying. I'm more attentive to seeing the differences, but even I don't have a big culture shock when I come up there. And yes, lots of people from Memphis do think that St. Louis is in the same region as Memphis. I dont agree with them at all, but most Memphians only come up to St. Louis for short periods of time (usually to go to a Cards game, or Six Flags), not enough time to notice differences. I guess if you're not paying much attention, it kinda looks similar, with the industrial, river city feel, bbq places, and large black population. I dont think most people care enough about cultural and dialectal differences to pay attention

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Those are typically the major cultural differences you'll see between a Midwestern city and a southern one. Dialect, cuisine, architecture, pace of the city, feel, religious and political views, etc. So if that's not culture shock, I don't know what is. St. Louis is more liberal than moderate, btw. Part of how it's not a major culture shock to you sounds relative more to you specifically, and not to Memphis. Schnuck's instead of Kroger...Memphis also has McDonald's and Hardee's...I never use chains or restaurants or grocery stores to define culture shock. People in St. Louis also don't say "y'all", "I'm fixin'," etc. Not to mention, St. Louis is more of a manufacturing Rust Belt city...Memphis is not...Memphis has a relatively small-town feel compared to St. Louis, and is much more laid back. Culture differences may have been a better term to use as opposed to culture shock. there are major cultural differences, that's for sure. Saying St. Louis and Memphis belong in the same region is grossly inaccurate. Having been to both Chicago and Memphis. St. Louis has much more in common with Chicago, especially from a modern standpoint.
Never said that Memphis and St. Louis are in the same region. And I just threw the Schnucks/Kroger thing for fun. Architecture is architecture, it's not really a cultural difference. There are shotgun style houses in the Hill, just like in Memphis & New Orleans, but the Hill isn't Southern at all.

People in St. Louis don't say Southern things like "y'all" and "fixin to" but neither do most people with a General American accent. Here in Memphis, we're used to hearing a General American accent. It's in the media, it's everywhere. Educated people here strive for that accent because it sounds "correct" Lots of people here are saying "you guys" now. Kind of annoying actually. So when we come up to St. Louis, it's not shocking to hear the accent (or lack thereof). We hear that all the time. There is a bit of a distinct accent (Northern Cities Vowel Shift influence), but it's more subtle, and it's close enough to General American for it to not be very noticeable.

And Memphis is not Rust Belt, but it has a lot of industrial feel. A LOT of the city looks like this.

memphis tn - Google Maps

So it's not Rust Belt, but it's not typically Sun Belt either.

Cuisine. Most people in Memphis aren't eating Southern food 24/7. We either eat typical American food, Mexican food (everywhere), and any chain restaurant you can find anywhere. And there aren't many places in the city and burbs that specifically serve Southern food, and those places are usually small hole-in-the-walls.

And when do we ever talk about St. Louis as just the city limits? The area as a whole is moderate, not liberal, not conservative. While the area around Memphis is definitely conservative. And you can't simply look at Democrat vs Republican, because if that were the case, then the county where Memphis is located would be 64% liberal, which it's not. And Memphis would be 75% liberal, which it's not. Probably the exact opposite. (I used the percentages that voted for Obama in 2008)

You're making it seem like when one visits the other city, it's like a foreign country. Not even close. I don't even feel much of a culture shock when I visit my relatives in Canada for months at a time. The world is a lot more connected these days, especially between cities that are only 4.5 hours apart. It would take someone who's never left their neighborhood to truly feel a cultural shock when they come to St. Louis.

Last edited by Smtchll; 01-25-2012 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,059,680 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
But that's what I'm saying. I'm more attentive to seeing the differences, but even I don't have a big culture shock when I come up there. And yes, lots of people from Memphis do think that St. Louis is in the same region as Memphis. I dont agree with them at all, but most Memphians only come up to St. Louis for short periods of time (usually to go to a Cards game, or Six Flags), not enough time to notice differences. I guess if you're not paying much attention, it kinda looks similar, with the industrial, river city feel, bbq places, and large black population. I dont think most people care enough about cultural and dialectal differences to pay attention


Never said that Memphis and St. Louis are in the same region. And I just threw the Schnucks/Kroger thing for fun. Architecture is architecture, it's not really a cultural difference. There are shotgun style houses in the Hill, just like in Memphis & New Orleans, but the Hill isn't Southern at all.

People in St. Louis don't say Southern things like "y'all" and "fixin to" but neither do most people with a General American accent. Here in Memphis, we're used to hearing a General American accent. It's in the media, it's everywhere. Educated people here strive for that accent because it sounds "correct" Lots of people here are saying "you guys" now. Kind of annoying actually. So when we come up to St. Louis, it's not shocking to hear the accent (or lack thereof). We hear that all the time. There is a bit of a distinct accent (Northern Cities Vowel Shift influence), but it's more subtle, and it's close enough to General American for it to not be very noticeable.

And Memphis is not Rust Belt, but it has a lot of industrial feel. A LOT of the city looks like this.

memphis tn - Google Maps

So it's not Rust Belt, but it's not typically Sun Belt either.

Cuisine. Most people in Memphis aren't eating Southern food 24/7. We either eat typical American food, Mexican food (everywhere), and any chain restaurant you can find anywhere. And there aren't many places in the city and burbs that specifically serve Southern food, and those places are usually small hole-in-the-walls.

And when do we ever talk about St. Louis as just the city limits? The area as a whole is moderate, not liberal, not conservative. While the area around Memphis is definitely conservative. And you can't simply look at Democrat vs Republican, because if that were the case, then the county where Memphis is located would be 64% liberal, which it's not. And Memphis would be 75% liberal, which it's not. Probably the exact opposite. (I used the percentages that voted for Obama in 2008)

You're making it seem like when one visits the other city, it's like a foreign country. Not even close. I don't even feel much of a culture shock when I visit my relatives in Canada for months at a time. The world is a lot more connected these days, especially between cities that are only 4.5 hours apart. It would take someone who's never left their neighborhood to truly feel a cultural shock when they come to St. Louis.
I guess your definition of a culture shock is different from mine. As far as caring enough to pay attention, you notice the differences whether or not you're there. And I do pay attention to those differences.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,444 posts, read 16,823,179 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
But that's what I'm saying. I'm more attentive to seeing the differences, but even I don't have a big culture shock when I come up there. And yes, lots of people from Memphis do think that St. Louis is in the same region as Memphis. I dont agree with them at all, but most Memphians only come up to St. Louis for short periods of time (usually to go to a Cards game, or Six Flags), not enough time to notice differences. I guess if you're not paying much attention, it kinda looks similar, with the industrial, river city feel, bbq places, and large black population. I dont think most people care enough about cultural and dialectal differences to pay attention



Never said that Memphis and St. Louis are in the same region. And I just threw the Schnucks/Kroger thing for fun. Architecture is architecture, it's not really a cultural difference. There are shotgun style houses in the Hill, just like in Memphis & New Orleans, but the Hill isn't Southern at all.

People in St. Louis don't say Southern things like "y'all" and "fixin to" but neither do most people with a General American accent. Here in Memphis, we're used to hearing a General American accent. It's in the media, it's everywhere. Educated people here strive for that accent because it sounds "correct" Lots of people here are saying "you guys" now. Kind of annoying actually. So when we come up to St. Louis, it's not shocking to hear the accent (or lack thereof). We hear that all the time. There is a bit of a distinct accent (Northern Cities Vowel Shift influence), but it's more subtle, and it's close enough to General American for it to not be very noticeable.

And Memphis is not Rust Belt, but it has a lot of industrial feel. A LOT of the city looks like this.

memphis tn - Google Maps

So it's not Rust Belt, but it's not typically Sun Belt either.

Cuisine. Most people in Memphis aren't eating Southern food 24/7. We either eat typical American food, Mexican food (everywhere), and any chain restaurant you can find anywhere. And there aren't many places in the city and burbs that specifically serve Southern food, and those places are usually small hole-in-the-walls.

And when do we ever talk about St. Louis as just the city limits? The area as a whole is moderate, not liberal, not conservative. While the area around Memphis is definitely conservative. And you can't simply look at Democrat vs Republican, because if that were the case, then the county where Memphis is located would be 64% liberal, which it's not. And Memphis would be 75% liberal, which it's not. Probably the exact opposite. (I used the percentages that voted for Obama in 2008)

You're making it seem like when one visits the other city, it's like a foreign country. Not even close. I don't even feel much of a culture shock when I visit my relatives in Canada for months at a time. The world is a lot more connected these days, especially between cities that are only 4.5 hours apart. It would take someone who's never left their neighborhood to truly feel a cultural shock when they come to St. Louis.
Dont take this the wrong way, but what the heck do chain restaurants have to do with anything?
Just because STL asnd Memphis both have them doesnt mean the regional cuisines of both cities are similar.
Because they arent.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:59 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 4,554,684 times
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Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Dont take this the wrong way, but what the heck do chain restaurants have to do with anything?
Just because STL asnd Memphis both have them doesnt mean the regional cuisines of both cities are similar.
Because they arent.
I was simply saying that most Memphians aren't eating Southern food all the time, so when we go to St. Louis and there's a lack of Southern restaurants, it's not a big deal, not a culture shock. A lack of Mexican restaurants would be more of a culture shock. Memphians love Mexican food.
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