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Old 01-30-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,443 posts, read 18,007,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Not a lot of people I know in Jefferson County claim to be American. In fact, the majority of counties in Missouri are dominated by German ancestry. It's really only the south central part starting about at rolla going south and the bootheel and locations below Cape that identify as American. If you're from Missouri. Jefferson County I would suspect to primarily of German and of Scotch-Irish ancestry. The 50% Catholic is VERY high...the only counties in the south I know about with Catholic populations that significant are either in Florida, due to the large amount of non-natives who moved there, southeast Louisiana, for its retained French, Cajun, and Creole ancestry, or in Texas, due to the hispanic population.
Those Catholic numbers in Jeffco are true, it used to be even higher 30 years ago.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Not a lot of people I know in Jefferson County claim to be American. In fact, the majority of counties in Missouri are dominated by German ancestry. It's really only the south central part starting about at rolla going south and the bootheel and locations below Cape that identify as American. If you're from Missouri. Jefferson County I would suspect to primarily of German and of Scotch-Irish ancestry. The 50% Catholic is VERY high...the only counties in the south I know about with Catholic populations that significant are either in Florida, due to the large amount of non-natives who moved there, southeast Louisiana, for its retained French, Cajun, and Creole ancestry, or in Texas, due to the hispanic population.
That's why I'm saying JeffCo has demographics that are more of a mixture of the Midwest & South. Large Scotch-Irish ancestry, large percentage of the population that is Southern Baptist, nearly as much as Catholics. You'll find 50% Catholic in Ste Genevieve & Perry County, but not Jefferson. This site shows that Jefferson County is only 16% Catholic, 13% Southern Baptist. You can even notice the difference in the billboards. In Perry & Ste Genevieve, you see a lot of Catholic pro-choice billboards, but then in Jefferson you dont see as many and you see more Evangelical billboards, until you hit St. Louis County.

So I think it's right to say that Jefferson feels a bit more Southern than Perry & Ste Genevieve. And the demographics reflect that as well. But i'm not saying that it is Southern.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
That's why I'm saying JeffCo has demographics that are more of a mixture of the Midwest & South. Large Scotch-Irish ancestry, large percentage of the population that is Southern Baptist, nearly as much as Catholics. You'll find 50% Catholic in Ste Genevieve & Perry County, but not Jefferson. This site shows that Jefferson County is only 16% Catholic, 13% Southern Baptist. You can even notice the difference in the billboards. In Perry & Ste Genevieve, you see a lot of Catholic pro-choice billboards, but then in Jefferson you dont see as many and you see more Evangelical billboards, until you hit St. Louis County.

So I think it's right to say that Jefferson feels a bit more Southern than Perry & Ste Genevieve. And the demographics reflect that as well. But i'm not saying that it is Southern.
Heres the thing.....one cannot really say that a place feels like anything until one has actually lived there, or spent an extended period of time there.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
But that's what I'm saying. I'm more attentive to seeing the differences, but even I don't have a big culture shock when I come up there. And yes, lots of people from Memphis do think that St. Louis is in the same region as Memphis. I dont agree with them at all, but most Memphians only come up to St. Louis for short periods of time (usually to go to a Cards game, or Six Flags), not enough time to notice differences. I guess if you're not paying much attention, it kinda looks similar, with the industrial, river city feel, bbq places, and large black population. I dont think most people care enough about cultural and dialectal differences to pay attention



Never said that Memphis and St. Louis are in the same region. And I just threw the Schnucks/Kroger thing for fun. Architecture is architecture, it's not really a cultural difference. There are shotgun style houses in the Hill, just like in Memphis & New Orleans, but the Hill isn't Southern at all.

People in St. Louis don't say Southern things like "y'all" and "fixin to" but neither do most people with a General American accent. Here in Memphis, we're used to hearing a General American accent. It's in the media, it's everywhere. Educated people here strive for that accent because it sounds "correct" Lots of people here are saying "you guys" now. Kind of annoying actually. So when we come up to St. Louis, it's not shocking to hear the accent (or lack thereof). We hear that all the time. There is a bit of a distinct accent (Northern Cities Vowel Shift influence), but it's more subtle, and it's close enough to General American for it to not be very noticeable.

And Memphis is not Rust Belt, but it has a lot of industrial feel. A LOT of the city looks like this.

memphis tn - Google Maps

So it's not Rust Belt, but it's not typically Sun Belt either.

Cuisine. Most people in Memphis aren't eating Southern food 24/7. We either eat typical American food, Mexican food (everywhere), and any chain restaurant you can find anywhere. And there aren't many places in the city and burbs that specifically serve Southern food, and those places are usually small hole-in-the-walls.

And when do we ever talk about St. Louis as just the city limits? The area as a whole is moderate, not liberal, not conservative. While the area around Memphis is definitely conservative. And you can't simply look at Democrat vs Republican, because if that were the case, then the county where Memphis is located would be 64% liberal, which it's not. And Memphis would be 75% liberal, which it's not. Probably the exact opposite. (I used the percentages that voted for Obama in 2008)

You're making it seem like when one visits the other city, it's like a foreign country. Not even close. I don't even feel much of a culture shock when I visit my relatives in Canada for months at a time. The world is a lot more connected these days, especially between cities that are only 4.5 hours apart. It would take someone who's never left their neighborhood to truly feel a cultural shock when they come to St. Louis.
You're right though St. Louis city and county should not be considered the same thing. The city votes democrat. Not to mention a number of dead people votes county also, but thats for another day. The county area is different. North County which is the lowest income part of the county is very heavily Democrat. Inner parts of the County around Clayton, Ladue are also liberal Democrat, south county is battle ground area near the city limits and trends Republican the more south you go closer to Oakville and parts of mehlville, and western parts of Stl county like eureka, Chesterfield, Wildwood, Clarkson Valley, Fenton are Republican. If you took north County out of the equation, Stl county would lean Republican. Infact Stl county traditionally leaned Republican until the last 20 years or so until the mass migration out of the city and into parts of north county has now caused Stl county to go democrat.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Heres the thing.....one cannot really say that a place feels like anything until one has actually lived there, or spent an extended period of time there.
So would you say that Jefferson County is the most Midwestern of the 3 and that Perry is the most Southern (culturally)? Because if you look at demographics, Perry looks very Midwestern, German, Catholic/Lutheran, while Jefferson has some typically Southern demographics. I'm just questioning the idea that regional culture works in such a uniform way. I'm just saying that a place could display more Southern characteristics even if it's further North and vice-versa.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ConservativeMissouri View Post
You're right though St. Louis city and county should not be considered the same thing. The city votes democrat. Not to mention a number of dead people votes county also, but thats for another day. The county area is different. North County which is the lowest income part of the county is very heavily Democrat. Inner parts of the County around Clayton, Ladue are also liberal Democrat, south county is battle ground area near the city limits and trends Republican the more south you go closer to Oakville and parts of mehlville, and western parts of Stl county like eureka, Chesterfield, Wildwood, Clarkson Valley, Fenton are Republican. If you took north County out of the equation, Stl county would lean Republican. Infact Stl county traditionally leaned Republican until the last 20 years or so until the mass migration out of the city and into parts of north county has now caused Stl county to go democrat.
I agree, but Ladue votes Republican, but more fiscally than socially.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Tennessee Delta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
So would you say that Jefferson County is the most Midwestern of the 3 and that Perry is the most Southern (culturally)? I'm just questioning the idea that regional culture works in such a uniform way. I'm just saying that a place could display more Southern characteristics even if it's further North and vice-versa.
For example parts of northern Scott County express a much more midwestern feel than many parts in southern Cape Girardeau County. Several towns in northern Scott County are heavily Catholic with German & French ancestries. Cape Girardeau County has no rural Catholic churches.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chicagobear View Post
I grew up in St. Louis and when I visited Cincinnati, it seemed remarkably like St. Louis. Both are northern industrial river towns on the border of the south with a heavy German influence. Cincinnati has a better downtown these days though.
Cincinnati alsos climate is much cooler according to the new National weather services new average high and low stats out. I always wondered why northern parts of KY had a cooler average highs than many parts of central MO, especially in the summer most areas of MO have warmer temps.

Just trying to figure it out and find it interesting.

Also agree on the bordering thing. We had a professor from Wash U lecture to my class and he said Stl is a bordering city of the Midwest and the south. If you head just 75 or so miles south of here you hit Cherokee pass which becomes pretty much southern, and just 100 miles down I55 you're entering Dixie in SE Missouri. Same with KY as very northern KY is pretty muc midwestern by Cinci and have to head a little bit ways south in KY to get out of the midwestern.

IMO I think Baltimore is a better comparison to present day Stl. Even civil war era as well both cities similar at the time both cities were split with slavery and anti slaver, southerners and northerners. Both were border cities at the time. Both also had riots.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
For example parts of northern Scott County express a much more midwestern feel than many parts in southern Cape Girardeau County. Several towns in northern Scott County are heavily Catholic with German & French ancestries. Cape Girardeau County has no rural Catholic churches.
Interesting, yeah that's what I mean. I think it's more about where certain groups settled rather than just drawing a line and saying "this side is the North, this side is the South. The further you get from the line, the more Northern/Southern it gets" I think maybe more Southerners settled in Jefferson County while more Germans/French settled in Ste. Genevieve & Perry Counties.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I didnt say it was the South, I said that it was more Southern than Ste Genevieve & Perry County, despite being further North. Jefferson County is Midwestern with Southern influences, Ste. Genevieve & Perry County are just Midwestern. It just goes to show that geography doesn't determine everything.
I will say Jefferson County has some "slight" southernish influences. Still midwestern. Not arnold and northern areas, but more SW sections, deeper into the county. Ste Gen and PErry Co are midwestern.
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