St. Louis people - sort of like Carbondale IL? Or no? (Cape Girardeau: school, living)

[Tiger Beer]

I don't know St. Louis very well. Driven through it, certainly felt like a large city and everything else.

However, it becomes difficult to define. On one hand, when I think of St. Louis, I think of a southern city. On the other hand, demographically, it has so many of the same kinds of people who emigrated to northeastern and midwest locations - i.e. many catholics, germans, irish, etc.

They also say 'soda' which is generally unique to Northeast USA than anywhere in the south or midwest. In short, seems like such a fusion of regions in St. Louis.

Another region that I'm familiar with, have a good friend from Carbondale IL. That city seems to be associated with the north because of the IL title afterwards. Yet, having spent some time there, it seems to scream southern in so many ways - the housing styles, the types of people, and the choices of food (i.e. bbq, etc.)

I'm wondering, I suppose, if someone was to classify the kind of people who live in St. Louis...would it be somewhat similar or the same kind of people as you see in Southern Illinois?

Or would you feel like still completely different from that? If so, how so? (I'm just using southern IL as a point of reference for myself)

[Smtchll]

I'd say the North-South line is right below Cape Girardeau MO. Carbondale is above that line, but it's close enough to have some Southern characterists, plus it has more rural characteristics, which can be mistaken for Southern. St. Louis is far away enough to be considered solidly Northern, and it's a big city so it has more of a cosmopolitan feel. However, it's Northerness is very subtle to many people. I tend to notice things like accents and the usage of different words, but many people don't. I've stopped in towns like Ste. Genevieve, Perryville, and Cape Girardeau and have noticed extremely subtle differences from the South, but they were so small that I don't think a lot of Southerners would notice if they were just passing through. In St. Louis, the differences are more obvious, but I've had plenty of people in Memphis tell me that St. Louis is a Southern city and feels like a Southern city. It's because they don't realize the differences in accent, religion, food, etc. (And the surrounding areas look a lot like the backwoods of Middle TN) I think you have to spend more time in a city, or more time researching to find that stuff out.

So to answer your question, to me St. Louis feels Northern. Carbondale (haven't been there) is probably more of a fusion, but leans more Northern. But a lot of other people might consider that whole region (both Stl & Carbondale) as a gray area that's not quite Southern & not quite Northern.

[BoomBoxing]

I think St. Louis is solidly northern and is definitely eastern influenced...being that it is about the same age as many eastern cities. However, I think there is definitely some southern influence, particularly in the southern parts of the metro area.

[aragx6]

St. Louis has far more in common with it's northeastern rust belt neighbors than it does with the south, though I would agree with others who say there certainly are some southern influences.

I haven't spent enough time in Carbondale to make any significant proclamations about the place, but the terrain is stunningly beautiful and has very little in common with northern Illinois.

Cincinnati is probably the US city that most straddles the line between northern and southern influences. I find it an exceedingly interesting town and place I definitely want to see more of.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I don't know St. Louis very well. Driven through it, certainly felt like a large city and everything else.

However, it becomes difficult to define. On one hand, when I think of St. Louis, I think of a southern city. On the other hand, demographically, it has so many of the same kinds of people who emigrated to northeastern and midwest locations - i.e. many catholics, germans, irish, etc.

They also say 'soda' which is generally unique to Northeast USA than anywhere in the south or midwest. In short, seems like such a fusion of regions in St. Louis.

Another region that I'm familiar with, have a good friend from Carbondale IL. That city seems to be associated with the north because of the IL title afterwards. Yet, having spent some time there, it seems to scream southern in so many ways - the housing styles, the types of people, and the choices of food (i.e. bbq, etc.)

I'm wondering, I suppose, if someone was to classify the kind of people who live in St. Louis...would it be somewhat similar or the same kind of people as you see in Southern Illinois?

Or would you feel like still completely different from that? If so, how so? (I'm just using southern IL as a point of reference for myself)

Southern Illinois certainly has a southern vibe to it and you will pick up on something similar to a southern twang with a lot of locals. I had a classmate in grad school from Harrisburg and you would have sworn he was from Tennessee.

St. Louis has some southern influences perhaps but is predominately a northern/midwestern city. St. Louis has always looked to the north and east, particularly Chicago.

I would not consider St. Louis to be a true southern city in any respect.

[loki03xlh]

I spent 6 years in Carbondale, I miss it......

Anyways, I think of C-dale and the surrounding area as more Southern/rural. To me, there is Illinois and there is Southern Illinois. There is also that foreign country to the North called Chicago.

As far as St. Louis, I consider it a rust-belt city in the same frame as Cincinatti, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh.

[slengel]

having lived in st. louis for two years now and originally from the east coast, st. louis is definitely a northern city. whatever few subtle southern characteristics exist here are overwhelmed by a mighty industrial and urbane atmosphere that shares more in common with the great lakes/northeast than any place in the south.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by Smtchll

I've stopped in towns like Ste. Genevieve, Perryville, and Cape Girardeau and have noticed extremely subtle differences from the South, but they were so small that I don't think a lot of Southerners would notice if they were just passing through. In St. Louis, the differences are more obvious, but I've had plenty of people in Memphis tell me that St. Louis is a Southern city and feels like a Southern city. It's because they don't realize the differences in accent, religion, food, etc. (And the surrounding areas look a lot like the backwoods of Middle TN) I think you have to spend more time in a city, or more time researching to find that stuff out.

So to answer your question, to me St. Louis feels Northern. Carbondale (haven't been there) is probably more of a fusion, but leans more Northern. But a lot of other people might consider that whole region (both Stl & Carbondale) as a gray area that's not quite Southern & not quite Northern.

Anyone that has spent any time at all in the South can tell that the bolded towns in the above post are a long way away from Southern....one just has to spend time in them, not just pass through.

[Smtchll]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

Anyone that has spent any time at all in the South can tell that the bolded towns in the above post are a long way away from Southern....one just has to spend time in them, not just pass through.

I agree, but if a Southerner just stopped in one of those towns, like at McDonald's or a gas station, they would probably get the impression that they were still in the South. When I'm coming up to St. Louis with friends from Memphis, I always make it a point to stop in one of these towns and ask my friends if they think they're still in the South, answer is always yes, but then I'd point out certain things like the accent and they would start to see the difference. I just think that most people don't pay attention or really care about those things like I do. But I wouldn't say that being 45 minutes to an hour outside of the South is "a long way away from Southern" That's pretty dang close.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by Smtchll

I agree, but if a Southerner just stopped in one of those towns, like at McDonald's or a gas station, they would probably get the impression that they were still in the South. When I'm coming up to St. Louis with friends from Memphis, I always make it a point to stop in one of these towns and ask my friends if they think they're still in the South, answer is always yes, but then I'd point out certain things like the accent and they would start to see the difference. I just think that most people don't pay attention or really care about those things like I do. But I wouldn't say that being 45 minutes to an hour outside of the South is "a long way away from Southern" That's pretty dang close.

The thing is, we dont think of ourselves as Southerners at all, we define ourselves as Midwesterners.....I am sitting in my living room in Ste Gen as I type this.
Having lived in the South for over 2 decades, and just being back here for a month, I am struck every day by how un-Southern the area is, and always has been.
As someone who knows of which they speak pointed out in another thread, Mo goes from Southern to completely Midwestern in the space of 30 miles, and thats not just geography, its the mindset and attitude thats a long way from Southern.
It matters not a whit how close or far from the South the areas we are speaking of are, they are very much non-Southern.
Perhaps your Southern friends that you have pointed these things out to are not rural? Thats the only thing I can ascribe it to.