How does St. Louis work?

[Dawn10am]

^That's probably not going to happen. Culinaria already killed off its competition, City Grocers. The most logical location for a TJ's within the City would be the CWE, followed maybe by TGS or Soulard?

[piloting]

I didn't know about City Grocers. I'm all for STL having a Trader Joe's or equivalent in every neighborhood. I've been dreaming about a Whole Foods in the Central West End for the last decade! It'd be wonderful. I didn't mean to start about a debate about if St. Louis has enough Schnucks locations. I'm speaking from someone who doesn't live in the city proper, who visits downtown maybe a few times a month, and that's why I felt it was appropriate to defend the original poster, a visitor, who was saying that there just doesn't seem to be 'enough' in the city. There are many reasons for that obviously. They're talking about that city-city feeling you get when you're walking around in downtown Chicago, and it's just shop after shop, and there are well-dressed people everywhere walking and buying. We just don't have that (anymore). Coming from somewhere with even a mild amount of hustle and bustle, like the Galleria on a Saturday, St. Louis' downtown can seem like a ghost town a lot of the time.

I've introduced several out-of-town friends to my favorite neighborhoods: the CWE, Tower Grove, and downtown. I love downtown, but what do my friends always say? Something along the lines of "It's so empty," or "Where are all the people?" Downtown is supposed to be where are the people are, where all the action is, but many times, it seems the opposite is true for St. Louis.

It used to embarrass me that my city didn't match their standards of what a "real city" should be like, but now I actually like how downtown is quiet much of the time. It's like the city is a giant museum exhibit: The Great Lost City of St. Louis. But a few more shops, preferably mainstream shops that visitors would recognize, would do wonders to deter that "empty" impression visitors get. Throw in an H&M, a Walgreens, a Dunkin Donuts, a McDonalds, another Starbucks, etc., and maybe visitors (who miss shopping in the county) will travel away thinking St. Louisans do more than sit around in their pretty houses (in between visits to the Zoo and the Arch, of course).

When I talk about what downtown could be, I always think of these old pictures of downtown shoppers from a Vanishing STL post: http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/200...e-life-on.html

[goat314]

The three biggest mid-century mistakes St. Louis made.

1) Local business leaders deciding to abandon the urban core in favor of suburban office parks and Clayton
2) The failure to implement heavy rail, mass transit when we were still the same size as DC, SF, ATL, BOS etc.
3) The systematic destruction of the near north and southside with urban renewal, public housing projects etc.

Would be a totally different city today if we would have implemented those policy changes.

[Amercity]

^4.in 1880 should have never seperated from the county. would be better for both entities if st.louis city was in the county.
5. Should have started redesining north side, encouraging tourism and building up downtown and CWE core 20 yrs ago compared to now.
6. By now we could have been a major hub for china and trade with china, the biggest trade partner of america. That would have probably gained hundreds of jobs and we might even have gained people in the process.

[piloting]

Originally Posted by goat314

The three biggest mid-century mistakes St. Louis made.

1) Local business leaders deciding to abandon the urban core in favor of suburban office parks and Clayton
2) The failure to implement heavy rail, mass transit when we were still the same size as DC, SF, ATL, BOS etc.
3) The systematic destruction of the near north and southside with urban renewal, public housing projects etc.

Would be a totally different city today if we would have implemented those policy changes.

All of these kinda sting when I think about them. But especially #2 because if St. Louis had tried to implement heavy rail back in the day like Chicago, it would completely have changed the history of the city! Of course, it could have changed other parts of history too, and I probably wouldn't have been born, but come on! Occasionally this comes up when I discuss St. Louis' flaws with my friends, but it stops when nobody knows exactly why St. Louis never *tried* to compete with other cities in the heavy rail department. Was there some conniving St. Louis businessman who had a stake in streetcars? o.O

#1 annoying, but it's not difficult to imagine the business owners' motivations.
#2 is just downright depressing. Has anyone seen the before and after photos of the area where Pruitt-Igoe was built? It's terrible! Almost as bad as the amount of the city that was demolished for the Arch Grounds. I'm all for the Arch, it's great, but demolishing 40 blocks of the city for underused park space, really? Of course, that brilliant move came from the same generation that thought it might be a good idea to put an expressway through the middle of Soho in Manhattan, so go figure. Thankfully that never happened! Lower Manhattan Expressway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[STLCityMike]

I live in South City ... and within 5 minutes of my house are a Schnucks, Shop N Save, Walgreens (more than one, actually). There is also a Save A Lot on Jefferson also within 5 minutes. Wlagreens are EVERYWHERE in south city, and CVS is high on their tail!

There is shopping on Jefferson, Grand, Kingshighway, Hampton, and McCausland at most major interstections. While department stores are limited to a Macy's downtown, and a K-Mart on Manchester, Big Lots or Burlington here and there ... and maybe a couple others .. Richmond Hieghts and Maplewood are easily within 10 minutes from my place ... 15 with heavier traffic and parking.

The diffrence with the city is the number of streets. In suburban areas, things are on the road YOU travel most often .. that is WHY they are there - becuase you are on the roads. In the city, things are on corners you might not visit often, but those who LIVE in the neighborhoods due.

Just my few cents

[STLCityMike]

We implemented the automobile ribbon .. 4 lovely freesways to speed people into the city, and as a result we shortened the commute for nearby suburban cities .. and then watch employers and residents follow the road out

We have made mistakes as we grow, we just need to learn to stop making them.