Census Data showing jobs migrating (St. Louis, St. Charles: rent, high crime, lawyers)

[MUTGR]

Jobs migrate across St. Louis region

I didn't see this discussed, but this is an interesting article in Sunday's post about jobs migrating out from the city core. This provides data supporting my own observations. When I was a kid growing up in St. Louis County, most of the parents on the block, including my farther, worked downtown. That's simply not true anymore. In fact, I don't know that many people who work downtown unless they happen to be lawyers or a few bankers.

I think this is significant for two reasons. One, there seems to be a stereotype that if you want to live in a far suburb or exurb, you automatically have a long commute. That's obviously not true anymore for a lot of people. Second, some on this board and elsewhere have hypothesized that the far suburbs and exurbs are going to fade away as more people want to move to the city core. Not sure that is going to happen since so many jobs have already moved out to those far out suburbs or exurbs. Ironically, those living in the city are likely to have the bigger commutes in the future.

I'm not posting this as a positive or negative, but simply as fact. Personally, I want a strong metropolitan area, which requires a healthy city core, but I don't see it as a city versus suburb or exurb type proposition like many seem to do.

[BoomBoxing]

And yet the expansion happens to pull out in all directions - so who is likely to be in the best position to have a shorter commute? Someone who lives on one of the far flung edges of the metro region, or someone who chose a central location? The metro east has several large employers including Scott Air Force Base. I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive there from Wentzville.

[RichMonk]

What ppl tend to overlook in the whole suburb vs city thing is that approach to problems of both.

The problems of the city are pretty well known and broadcast regularly. Because of this there are people taking action to address these problems making the city more attractive to residents and businesses as well as creating a sustainable future.

The problems of the suburbs tend to be hidden away behind a curtain of denial (or new construction). So everything seems honky dory except for rising fuel prices, road maintenance outpacing funding, vast swaths of poorly built homes from the 80s and prior quickly deteriorating into ghastly shells of their former glory, and an uptick in the number of house poor families.

The boutiqing of our cities doesn't help the situation either. When times would get tough in the country, people would flock to the cheap housing of the city. That has completely changed now that regressive wealthy city dwellers are preventing new development, causing rents to soar (not as true in STL as elsewhere).

A balance can be struck between the city and the suburbs. Right now, it is completely upside down. Cities should be the places where people, who come from humble means, can find affordable housing and day to day living costs so that they can work their way up. Once established, they can stay in the city or move the suburbs to commit mass amounts of consumerism (in a good way). The way it is now, poorer people and immigrants, are forced into suburbs b/c of high rent or high crime in the segregated city slums. Once in the burbs they struggle a lot and have a harder time of moving up versus living in an affordable urban area with public transit and convenience that allows them to work more and save more.

We need to work on the economic relationship of cities and suburbs, not focus on cities versus suburbs.

-my 2 cents

[aragx6]

I think boom's point is a valid one. If you lived in Arnold and for years worked at a small factory down there only to be laid off during all the budget cuts, you'd be in a tough situation to find new employment close to home -- and if they've lost money on their home often moving simply isn't an option.

If people stayed at their jobs forever, then your point would be valid, and I almost always suggest people look for a community that best fits their needs while staying as close as they can for work, but I worry about buying a 100,000 house in Wentzville only to later find employment in Edwardsville, IL.

If you lived in mid county or St. Louis city you're a heckuva lot more prepared to work in a totally different part of the metro.

[stlcitygirl]

A majority of my friends work downtown and Clayton. I actually turned down a job that would have me commuting to Earth City. My time is more important, it's a quality of life issue for me. I also find it disturbing that people aren't concerned with the obnoxious sprawl. It is the #1 problem I have with STL.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by stlcitygirl

A majority of my friends work downtown and Clayton. I actually turned down a job that would have me commuting to Earth City. My time is more important, it's a quality of life issue for me. I also find it disturbing that people aren't concerned with the obnoxious sprawl. It is the #1 problem I have with STL.

The census data shows that the jobs are following people to the far suburbs and exurbs, so it may be a quality of life issue for someone who works in St. Charles County to live in St. Charles County.

Whether or not the sprawl is obnoxious to you or anyone else, it's not likely going to go away when the jobs are moving with the people.

[aragx6]

It's funny though, for all the people I know in St. Charles county (and I still know easily hundreds) no one other than teachers and a couple of service-level workers like a high school buddy who works at an auto parts store work in St. Charles. Many of them work in north St. Louis county or west county.

I'm trying to think of major employment hubs out there -- what are they?

[RichMonk]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

The census data shows that the jobs are following people to the far suburbs and exurbs, so it may be a quality of life issue for someone who works in St. Charles County to live in St. Charles County.

Whether or not the sprawl is obnoxious to you or anyone else, it's not likely going to go away when the jobs are moving with the people.

the jobs are moving with people, true. Though, I don't think they deserve the kind of permanence you are granting them. Corporate offices are notorious for moving around to get this and that perk or whatever. If people stop moving out, so will the jobs, and if the people retreat, so will the jobs.

What is happening now is a clear indicator that suburbia is still growing despite a housing bust. It is not an indicator of staying power. People and businesses could leave as quickly as they came if incentives were different.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by RichMonk

People and businesses could leave as quickly as they came if incentives were different.

What things will look like in 30 years I have no idea, but there is absolutely no indication that there is any net migration of jobs back to the city core. All the data points to the opposite.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by aragx6

It's funny though, for all the people I know in St. Charles county (and I still know easily hundreds) no one other than teachers and a couple of service-level workers like a high school buddy who works at an auto parts store work in St. Charles. Many of them work in north St. Louis county or west county.

I'm trying to think of major employment hubs out there -- what are they?

I think you'd have to consider the Winghaven area out 40/64 as a hub, whether it ranks as magor or not, I don't know. You have mastercard out there employing a lot of people, not sure who else.