Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
*Sighs* Indeed I was in St. Louis (or University City, to be exact) to witness the Cardinals win the World Series in 2006. Cars honked all night outside my place, too...couldn't sleep a wink . Had never witnessed that sort of devotion to a baseball team before; the reactions at home to the Giants run in 2003 or the A's record winning streak in 2002 couldn't compare. Then again, they've only been on the West Coast since 1958 and 1968, respectively. I cherry pick? Mmmhmm yeah, very likely. I'm sure it was Rams time when they won the Super Bowl and got back there the next year, just as it was Raider time when Jon Gruden was still the coach and when they reached the Super Bowl the year after he left, no duh (although it's been a long nightmare since then thanks to a certain owner) .
Fandom for the Cardinals has been handed down generation upon generation, its flagship radio station in all 50 states...in other words you're confirming what I said at the get-go...baseball reigns supreme in St. Louis. As for Baron Davis, they should've given the man his money, but now he's on a team that gives the Warriors a reason to feel good about themselves lol.
OMG, please say that someone did not just question my credentials in history and current events. FYI, I went to a school called Washington U. in St. Louis, virtually no name recognition on the West Coast, but I'm sure that's not the case for all you St. Louisans.
Finally, back to the matter at hand. The NBA is in a state of flux, that's for sure, with players jumping overseas rather than the other way around, a team in (of all places) Oklahoma City, and the Eastern Conference beginning to gain ground on the West...if the rumors about Kansas City and Vegas turn out to be true, then I guess St. Louis would be a possibility, after all. It would be even more interesting to see, if it does become reality, would that shake up the balance (competition-wise) between the two conferences even more. Just think if the Hornets were still in Charlotte, rather than the Bobcats.
I was willing to answer your many off topic comments.
The Cardinals have a great following for many reasons, and they have been very successful recently as well. However, you keep misunderstanding the actual point. St. Louis is a sports town, regardless of sport. The other point is that as pointed out to you via facts, plenty of people in St. Louis are interested in basketball.
Why do I care if Washington University has any name recognition in your opinion on the West Coast? The topic was basketball, and more precisely it is your opinion that St. Louis isn't all that interested in basketball. I pointed out to you facts, that cannot be disputed, to the contrary. I then humored your many off topic rants, like this one I'll add now: Washington University is the reigning Division III men's National Champions in basketball, and currently ranked in the top 5 Nationally for D-III.
If you didn't enjoy your collegiate experience at Wash. U, why not start a thread on that instead? Clearly it had enough West Coast recognition to attract such a candidate as you.
You then say back to the matter at hand....and then talk NBA....no, the matter at hand is whether or not people in St. Louis have interest in basketball. But, again, I'll play along on more off topic rants...
Charlotte had poor ownership and management, along with luke warm at best fan interest in their team, and that is why they moved. The league wanted a team there so a team exists there. College basketball reigns supreme on Tobacco Road. Chapel Hill, Durham, Raleigh, Winston-Salem, etc..
Oklahoma City has a team because a guy who likes basketball, who is from Oklahoma, and also happens to have a billion dollars, decided to buy the team from Seattle. Seattle had long had ownership problems, venue problems, and recently struggling on court performance.
Prior to you entering this thread the general topic was whether or not St. Louis was a large enough and viable enough metro to support four major sports teams at less than 3 million people in the metro area. Opinions vary, with the majority saying no. In the Bay area, only the Giants and Niners actually play in San Francisco. The revenue struggling Oakland A's are moving to suburban San Jose in Fremont. The San Jose Sharks have the only hockey team in the Bay area. The San Jose Earthquakes MLS soccer team moved to Houston after not being able to secure a stadium fit for soccer. Spartan Stadium (San Jose St U) was nowhere near desired field size for soccer.
You should compare St. Louis to San Francisco, or St. Louis to Oakland, or St. Louis to San Jose. Instead you are taking 3 different areas, rolling them together into one, and comparing them to St. Louis. While you are at it, why not go up the road a couple of hours to Sacramento and throw in the Kings. They moved from Kansas City. St. Louis despite not being an apples to apples comparison, matches up well in terms of sports interest, and even basketball interest.
Like many other young people you isolate your own limited experiences, in this case a couple of years, and even then you were pretty far off in your actual information. If basketball wasn't important to Saint Louis University, why did they just build a state of the art $85 million plus basketball facility compete with state of the art Arena and facilities for training, practice and games? Why did Mizzou build something similar and even bigger a few years ago? That would tell me someone is interested in basketball in the area. Why are locals turning out in big numbers for all of these other basketball events too? The NCAA doesn't award the NCAA title game in D-I Men's and Women's hoops, nor Regionals nor opening rounds, if people don't attend in big numbers. The annual MVC tournament, and Mizzou V Illinois games wouldn't be played in St. Louis if people weren't going. These new local and Regional basketball Arenas wouldn't be built if people didn't have interest in basketball. NBA exhibition games wouldn't bother coming to town, neither would the Harlem Globe Trotters, nor Nike AAU youth basketball events, etc..
You simply concluded incorrectly, that because SLU and Mizzou have had recent struggling seasons, the few years you were in town, and because St. Louis doesn't have an NBA team, that people in St. Louis aren't interested in basketball. You clearly missed the many Illinois fans living in St. Louis along with the MVC fans who have had some good teams. This isn't true. Now, who really cares either way in the grand scheme of life. But your opinion wasn't and isn't supported very much by fact , and you have been unable discount all of the facts provided to support a differing opinion regarding local Stl basketball interest.
Last edited by Fishtacos; 01-14-2009 at 02:50 PM..
*Sighs even more* I took 3 different areas, rolled them into one...because Oakland/SF/SJ collectively form the Bay Area, duh. Anyway, this will be my last post on the topic. In the 2 years that I was in St. Louis, I spent most of my time in U-City or Clayton yet managed to cover everywhere from Webster Groves to East St. Louis. The support for the hometown Cardinals, as far an MLB team goes, was unlike any I'd witnessed before or since; clearly this team was second to none among the locals that I encountered. I already knew that they were formerly the Kansas City Kings, thank you very much (and before that, the Kansas City/Omaha Kings)...they moved to Sacramento in 1985. I could go on and on, but clearly the above blogger is going to see things his own way, as I am mine. Would a metro area of 3 million people be able to take on a 4th professional franchise in these dire economic times? It's been over 40 years since the Hawks hit the road for Atlanta, and back then the NBA was a distant third to the MLB and NFL, in an era of roughly one NBA game being televised per week, so who knows. I could go on and on, but clearly the above blogger will see thing his own way, and I got better things to do than argue all day.
*Sighs even more* I took 3 different areas, rolled them into one...because Oakland/SF/SJ collectively form the Bay Area, duh. Anyway, this will be my last post on the topic. In the 2 years that I was in St. Louis, I spent most of my time in U-City or Clayton yet managed to cover everywhere from Webster Groves to East St. Louis. The support for the hometown Cardinals, as far an MLB team goes, was unlike any I'd witnessed before or since; clearly this team was second to none among the locals that I encountered. I already knew that they were formerly the Kansas City Kings, thank you very much (and before that, the Kansas City/Omaha Kings)...they moved to Sacramento in 1985. I could go on and on, but clearly the above blogger is going to see things his own way, as I am mine. Would a metro area of 3 million people be able to take on a 4th professional franchise in these dire economic times? It's been over 40 years since the Hawks hit the road for Atlanta, and back then the NBA was a distant third to the MLB and NFL, in an era of roughly one NBA game being televised per week, so who knows. I could go on and on, but clearly the above blogger will see thing his own way, and I got better things to do than argue all day.
So, in short, why bother with actual facts? Should I make a post or start a thread that says Bay Area people don't like eating pizza on Wednesdays. I know this because over a couple of year period, in the many years I've spent in the Bay Area, I never physically saw anyone eating any pizza on Wednesdays, so therefore I conclude that nobody eats pizza on Wednesdays in the Bay Area. Then when the facts show otherwise, I'll just try to change the subject, run around in circles, and eventually when I am asked to deal with the actual topic at hand, I'll just say that I could clearly go on and on, but I won't. And I'll then say I have better things to post on here even though I just did many times.
As I told you, on this particular topic, you should have picked someone else, someplace else to state your factless based opinion.
Just because one team in another sport has a large following during the couple of year window that intersected with your time in that city, doesn't mean other teams in other sports, and other sports in general do not have followings.
"I just returned home after going to school in the St. Louis area for a couple years. Honestly, not very many of the locals seemed interested in basketball at all." You were given countless examples of objective facts and statistics that showed otherwise. And your response each time was to change the subject. I mistakenly thought you were capable of multi-tasking on multiple topics. My mistake. But so far you haven't really stated anything of any substance to support your opinion. And, you really haven't addressed the overwhelming contradictory evidence.
You have proceeded to come here, say something negative about St. Louis and its basketball fans, not supported by fact, and then something negative about a local University that you attended, that I didn't even bother to address, except to humorously point out they are the defending D-III men's basketball Champions.(someone at Wash U cared about basketball.)
St Louis has a metro of 3 million people. How come there is no NBA team?
Build a $300 million dollar arena downtown with tax payers' money (and throw in a 10 year profit guarantee for the team) and the NBA will follow. The NBA stands for Need Bucks Asap. It also stands for No Broke Areas allowed!!!
So, in short, why bother with actual facts? Should I make a post or start a thread that says Bay Area people don't like eating pizza on Wednesdays. I know this because over a couple of year period, in the many years I've spent in the Bay Area, I never physically saw anyone eating any pizza on Wednesdays, so therefore I conclude that nobody eats pizza on Wednesdays in the Bay Area. Then when the facts show otherwise, I'll just try to change the subject, run around in circles, and eventually when I am asked to deal with the actual topic at hand, I'll just say that I could clearly go on and on, but I won't. And I'll then say I have better things to post on here even though I just did many times.
As I told you, on this particular topic, you should have picked someone else, someplace else to state your factless based opinion.
Just because one team in another sport has a large following during the couple of year window that intersected with your time in that city, doesn't mean other teams in other sports, and other sports in general do not have followings.
"I just returned home after going to school in the St. Louis area for a couple years. Honestly, not very many of the locals seemed interested in basketball at all." You were given countless examples of objective facts and statistics that showed otherwise. And your response each time was to change the subject. I mistakenly thought you were capable of multi-tasking on multiple topics. My mistake. But so far you haven't really stated anything of any substance to support your opinion. And, you really haven't addressed the overwhelming contradictory evidence.
You have proceeded to come here, say something negative about St. Louis and its basketball fans, not supported by fact, and then something negative about a local University that you attended, that I didn't even bother to address, except to humorously point out they are the defending D-III men's basketball Champions.(someone at Wash U cared about basketball.)
Interesting, FishTacos, I've noticed based on your other posts around here and on other threads that I am not the first person you've been so reactionary with on here, and I seriously doubt I will be the last. Oh well, I'm pretty sure that other people who read my posts will know full well that I never intended to say anything negative about St. Louis, as I enjoy the place and its people very much...you could've just said "I disagree with you that the city St. Louis isn't into basketball" or something, that would've worked better I think. In case you forgot, I went to WashU, and yes, I witnessed firsthand the march of OUR, yes, our basketball team to the Div. III national title...for all you fellow WashU students and Alumni out there, Red Alert! A shout out goes to the women's basketball team, too, they're also a perennial national power btw. I said that the above post was the last one I'd be making on here, I guess I lied haha.
St. Louis I think is not big enough for teams in all 4 major sports leagues at once (MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL). Looking at cities that are similar in size (like Cleveland) proves this. 3 of those leagues I think is as much as a city/metro this size can handle. Ones big enough for all 4 generally tend to be among the larger cities in the United States (New York, Chicago, Miami, Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta, etc.)
Ahh Denver. Denver is always a good case study. Denver as a metro area is already more in population than Stl metro area, right at about 3 million. Population grew 19% from 1990-2000 and is already closing in on plus 10% for this decade.
Also, you need to consider the proximity of other cities/locations with any of the four major pro sports within the region.
Ahh Denver. Denver is always a good case study. Denver as a metro area is already more in population than Stl metro area, right at about 3 million. Population grew 19% from 1990-2000 and is already closing in on plus 10% for this decade.
Also, you need to consider the proximity of other cities/locations with any of the four major pro sports within the region.
As of 2006 Denvers Metro Population was just under 2.5 Million
As of 2007, St. Louis Metro Population was just over 2.7 Million.
I dont think Denver has gained 500,000 people in the last 2 and a half years, particularly when you consider the slow down in building over the past year.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Had never witnessed that sort of devotion to a baseball team before; the reactions at home to the Giants run in 2003 or the A's record winning streak in 2002 couldn't compare. Then again, they've only been on the West Coast since 1958 and 1968, respectively. I cherry pick? Mmmhmm yeah, very likely. I'm sure it was Rams time when they won the Super Bowl and got back there the next year, just as it was Raider time when Jon Gruden was still the coach and when they reached the Super Bowl the year after he left, no duh (although it's been a long nightmare since then thanks to a certain owner) 
. 
Interesting, FishTacos, I've noticed based on your other posts around here and on other threads that I am not the first person you've been so reactionary with on here, and I seriously doubt I will be the last. Oh well, I'm pretty sure that other people who read my posts will know full well that I never intended to say anything negative about St. Louis, as I enjoy the place and its people very much...you could've just said "I disagree with you that the city St. Louis isn't into basketball" or something, that would've worked better I think. In case you forgot, I went to WashU, and yes, I witnessed firsthand the march of OUR, yes, our basketball team to the Div. III national title...for all you fellow WashU students and Alumni out there, Red Alert! A shout out goes to the women's basketball team, too, they're also a perennial national power btw. I said that the above post was the last one I'd be making on here, I guess I lied haha.
