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Old 12-15-2011, 02:48 PM
 
263 posts, read 528,101 times
Reputation: 154

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
With you on the public transit and the density could be better. But the rest? I strongly disagree.

Good Food. WHAT?! Between Niche, Sidney Street, Vin de Set, Iron Barley, Pappys, Dressels, Pi, Mango, Pho Grand, all the places on the hill, the Mexican places on Cherokee, I could go on and on and on and on. St. Louis has such an amazing food scene and sadly so few people seem aware of it. Pickup Sauce or Feast and check it out sometime.

Nightlife. Well everyone has their own type of nightlife. If top notch clubs with bottle service are your thing, then yes STL is probably lacking. But casual hangouts with great drink specials, live music, and chill crowds - STL is chock full of them. You have a high-end scene on Washington, gay scene in the Grove, a ton of bars in Soulard, Benton Park, CWE, so on and so on.

Decent coffee. This one might be the craziest for me. Because here in DC we have like 10 Starbucks for every indie coffee shop. In St. Louis city it seems like every neighborhood has one or two really good options. Mud House, Cafe Ventana, Coffee Cartel, Murdoch Perk, Soulard Coffee Garden, Park Avenue, Mokabees. Local roasters Kaldis and Northwest are top notch.

Vibrant neighborhoods. I know STL does not have the kind of hustle and bustle of bigger cities, but you almost have to admit for a city its size it does very well. And you forgot the Loop and CWE, which are by far the most vibrant neighborhoods in the area...and they have more going on than most "vibrant" neighborhoods I've seen in bigger cities.

Like yourself, I moved away but it was entirely job related. While I enjoy the bigger city life, my heart is still in St. Louis. A city in transformation is really more exciting for me than one that's already "there". I strongly disagree with your earlier post about how St. Louis should have try and attract young professionals like you and I. There's an air of authenticity that cities like St. Louis have where they haven't quite been overrun by overpriced cupcake places, fro-yo, and dog parks. St. Louis still seems "real" to me and that makes me love the city more than one that feels custom tailored to my interests.
Sorry, I don't consider Washington St to be "high-end" nightlife in any sense of the word. The Grove has like 2-3 gay bars - OK. How about a nice cocktail bar? Or decent neighborhood dive bars (crappy "Irish" pubs in Soulard don't count)? Solid mid-range (500-1000 people) music venues? A few real beer bars? Yes, I'm aware of the International Tap House in Soulard, but the vast majority of St Louis bars do not have good craft beers on tap. You're lucky if they have Schlafly.

I've frequented Niche, Sidney St Cafe, Pappy's, 1111 Mississippi, Brasserie by Niche, Taste by Niche, Farm Haus, Pi, and Pho Grand on multiple occasions. Out of those restaurants, only Pappy's and Niche would survive for more than a few months in places like SF, NY, or Chicago. I recently went to Farm Haus, which is considered by many to be the best newish restaurant in St Louis, and thought the experience very mediocre.

Kaldi's is pretty good as I mentioned. Outside of that, coffee in St Louis is not good. Coffee Cartel, really? I recently went to Mud House and had honestly the worst latte I've experienced. Starbucks-level bad. And this from what many consider to be the best coffeeshop in St Louis? The decor and ambiance was nice, I will say that, but the coffee itself was extremely poor.

Maybe I'm expecting too much....

Last edited by gotigers123; 12-15-2011 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
1,221 posts, read 2,735,661 times
Reputation: 810
St. Louis is not NYC, SF, or Chicago. Very few cities are. You have to take it for what it is.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,846,449 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotigers123 View Post
I fail to see how I contradicted myself.

I'm a St Louis booster in the sense that I regularly defend the city when it comes up in discussion among residents of the large coastal cities in which I've lived. St Louis (as I'm sure you're aware) has a horrible reputation throughout the country. I do my best to defend it whenever I get the chance.

The city has tremendous potential, yes. That doesn't mean it's there yet, or anywhere close to being a vibrant city.

Coffee in St Louis is really poor. Compared to Florida I'm sure it's not too bad. Smirk all you want.
You just made my Gran Dama burp, she laughed so hard.
Wholelattelove.com: DeLonghi: DeLonghi Gran Dama 6600: Espresso Machines: Super Automatic
As far as the rest of your post, I believe thats what is known as damning with faint praise.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,846,449 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn10am View Post
St. Louis is not NYC, SF, or Chicago. Very few cities are. You have to take it for what it is.
Yep, thats exactly what is going on.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,739,556 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
^This makes me think you've never commuted daily in Chicago or LA. I have, and they're truly not even in the same ballpark. If you can avoid 270 as well as 70 out in St. Charles it's really not that bad at all.

And complaining about the job market here when you now live in Florida seems odd to me -- everyone I knew who moved down there has come back because jobs are so scarce -- that is, of course, if they're not heinously underwater on their house as many people are.
We recently had a job opening for a tech job that basically required an MS where 1/3rd of the applicants were from the St Louis region, 1/3rd from nearby states, and 1/3rd from Florida!
When we asked the Florida applicants why, they said that unemployment was so high there among college grads that people from Florida are applying for every higher level tech job they can find.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,739,556 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomzoom3 View Post
I-70 from the Blanchette Bridge on out to Wentzville probably rivals LA's 405 stretch from the 105/LAX to the Ventura Freeway. It's the worst in STL by far, 270 probably 2nd worse, and 40/64 next worse. I haven't commuted daily in LA or Chicago, but have visited enough to notice there's not much difference there.
Oh heck no it doesn't.

I grew up in San Diego. I can rattle off at least 3 times I was stuck on the 405 not moving for more than 2 hours, and I rarely went into LA other than to go to the airport. Even worse, i have been stuck on the grapevine for more than 4 hours several times; once for 10 hours.
That simply does not happen in St Louis, ever.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,846,449 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
We recently had a job opening for a tech job that basically required an MS where 1/3rd of the applicants were from the St Louis region, 1/3rd from nearby states, and 1/3rd from Florida!
When we asked the Florida applicants why, they said that unemployment was so high there among college grads that people from Florida are applying for every higher level tech job they can find.
The job market here in FL is abysmal, the real estate market here is so bad I cannot even think of an adjective for it, and thats unusual for me.
More than half of my client base is out of state right now.
-sigh-
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:28 PM
 
1,783 posts, read 3,872,539 times
Reputation: 1387
Several things...and posting from my phone so bear with me.

1) Anyone of those resteraunts would likely flourish in those cities. You are going to seriously imply that all places in NYC are amazing? And there IS a Pi outside of STL - here in DC! And guess what...it's already hugely popular and well reviewed.

2) Speaking of Washington, checkout the lifestyle section of the Washington Post online this weekend. Long article praising the STL food scene including a lot of places I mentioned. I would link but again I'm on my phone.

3) I find it hard to believe you think STL lacks good beer bars. I can say objectively that it's one of the best beer cities in the country! Esquire even had it as a top 5 a couple months ago. There's no way you can say Schlafly is hard to find in St. Louis - you can get it and other microbrews at probably 95% - 99% of bars in St. Louis. Checkout Stlhops.com sometime...St. Louis has an amazing beer scene and it's way better than here in DC (and yes you can find Schlafly here too). Stlhops also has a great list of local beer bars.

4) I never said St. Louis had a better nightlife/food scene than the cities you mentioned, only that it's vastly underrated. I also want to reiterate my comment about how few people even realize how good those things are in STL. Your comment about finding it hard to find Schlafly and a lack of beer bars makes me think you're probably among those people.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,739,556 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
Speaking of Washington, checkout the lifestyle section of the Washington Post online this weekend. Long article praising the STL food scene including a lot of places I mentioned. I would link but again I'm on my phone.
Postcard from Tom: St. Louis restaurant recommendations - The Washington Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
Esquire even had it as a top 5 a couple months ago. There's no way you can say Schlafly is hard to find in St. Louis - you can get it and other microbrews at probably 95% - 99% of bars in St. Louis. Checkout Stlhops.com sometime...St. Louis has an amazing beer scene and it's way better than here in DC (and yes you can find Schlafly here too). Stlhops also has a great list of local beer bars.
Best Cities for Beer - 7 Best U.S. Cities to Drink Beer - Esquire
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:46 PM
 
1,783 posts, read 3,872,539 times
Reputation: 1387
^ Thanks! You rock
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