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Old 04-02-2012, 07:29 AM
 
Location: St. Ann, MO
2,844 posts, read 2,629,417 times
Reputation: 1447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
You cant really get a feel of St. Louis from the interstate. It doesn't look good from the interstate because you cant see all the cool neighborhoods. That's one of the problems with interstates, not just in St. Louis, but in many cities. Some people are too reliant on them and they think they've really seen a city because they passed through it on the interstate.

Yes, I said the same thing in an earlier post. One of the major issues with the perception of St. Louis is the interstate, specifically I -70 going through the North side, which considering the Arch is our most "Major" attraction, it's the most likely path individuals from the West will take to see it. And in all honesty, it's one of the worst visuals you can use to make a general impression of the city. Folks who can't afford to pay for their utilities do bring up a good point too. If you've got a roof over your head, but are living by candlelight at night, or have a toilet but no water or sewer service to operate it, I don't know if you're much better than third world either. I'd imagine some form of social welfare would allow for things like that, but besides raising taxes for the purpose of providing it as a basic governmental service for EVERYONE, I can't think of any other way to get it done.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 17,883,681 times
Reputation: 3597
Driving down I-44 or I-64 leaves a completely different impression than those who drive through St. Louis. Frankly, judging a city by the view from an interstate is asinine.

Also I don't understand why you're bringing crime into the equation at all kacigre -- "third world" and crime have little to do with each other. And talking about what happened to Trayvon Martin in a suburb in Florida as if it says something about the level of urban poverty and blight in St. Louis doesn't make any sense. At all. If you don't want to have an intellectually above board conversation, then I'd stick to asking about dog parks.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,444 posts, read 16,016,303 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
Driving down I-44 or I-64 leaves a completely different impression than those who drive through St. Louis. Frankly, judging a city by the view from an interstate is asinine.

Also I don't understand why you're bringing crime into the equation at all kacigre -- "third world" and crime have little to do with each other. And talking about what happened to Trayvon Martin in a suburb in Florida as if it says something about the level of urban poverty and blight in St. Louis doesn't make any sense. At all. If you don't want to have an intellectually above board conversation, then I'd stick to asking about dog parks.
Trayvon was shot within a gated community, so whoever brought that up certainly has no idea of what they are speaking of......just as those that judge cities by the drive through on the interstate.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
2,334 posts, read 1,242,242 times
Reputation: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
You cant really get a feel of St. Louis from the interstate. It doesn't look good from the interstate because you cant see all the cool neighborhoods. That's one of the problems with interstates, not just in St. Louis, but in many cities. Some people are too reliant on them and they think they've really seen a city because they passed through it on the interstate.
I absolutely agree with what you are saying, but this morning I drove 44 east to the poplar street bridge into Illinois, and I wish something would be done with that graffiti laced abandoned shell of warehouse right by the highway there as you get on the ramp to cross into Illinois. This morning it contained "blank the police." Rather gives the impression of an out of control urban environment when you see that right there at a major highway interchange downtown. Of course, it's been there for years.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:28 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
390 posts, read 487,080 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
Driving down I-44 or I-64 leaves a completely different impression than those who drive through St. Louis. Frankly, judging a city by the view from an interstate is asinine.

Also I don't understand why you're bringing crime into the equation at all kacigre -- "third world" and crime have little to do with each other. And talking about what happened to Trayvon Martin in a suburb in Florida as if it says something about the level of urban poverty and blight in St. Louis doesn't make any sense. At all. If you don't want to have an intellectually above board conversation, then I'd stick to asking about dog parks.
I was answering to stlcitygirl, who brought up crime.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:01 PM
 
276 posts, read 193,445 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Yeez, Hackney and Brixton where run down, but nothing like North Saint Louis, at least when I lived in London. And dangerous, yeah, you can get mugged, but because of the strict weapons laws in most of Western Europe, you don't get shot as easy as here in the US.
And where and when did I show up???
was a victim of crime twice in the UK, never been, nor do I know anyone who has been shot at, let alone shot, heard gunfire once in the city on new years eve, 1995, it was pretty far away.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9 posts, read 3,444 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickymaric View Post

Interesting, I never posted anything about the USA being first world. Its not, never has been. There are people who live in 1st world America, but millions living in the 2nd and 3rd world. This is not a first world nation, its a mixed bag nation. Travel to the EU, Canada, Israel, and several other countries, and you'll see all their cities have NO SLUM whatsoever. The USA is only nice, glamorous, prosperous, wealthy, on TV. Not everyone lives that lifestyle. Now in other nations, you cant even tell who is wealthy or poor. Everyone is the same, and that is the definition of a functioning country.

I am lucky enough to have been in 20 different USA states and 11 different countries abroad. The places I've been to abroad, are nicer than places here. Travel, you'll see!
Right here I see a problem with this person's observations. I've grown up in the St. Louis area and I've visited many countries, including Israel. I imagine during this person's visit to Israel that they had no desire to stop by a little place called The West Bank, also known as Palestine. Palestine, thanks to Israel's control over it, is essentially Israel, and to say that there are no slums there is rather asinine. Off the top of my head, places like Hebron and Bethlehem have areas that are pretty darn tragic. Israel is a country with a giant concrete wall cutting through the middle of it, after all - hardly a 1st World amenity.

St. Louis City and East St. Louis have some non-1st world features, at least where crime and maintenance of buildings are considered, but your conclusions are full of hyperbole.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:48 PM
 
938 posts, read 674,225 times
Reputation: 592
Dude. Third world is going too far. You obviously took a wrong turn at delmar and ended up in the poor areas of st.louis. Even those areas arent 3rd world. There are so many well-kept neighbourhoods like TGS, TGE, Benton Park, Benton Park West, Soulard, Cardonelet, Ellendale, Skinker, Debalivere, Gate District, Downtown, Downtown West, Central West End, Midtown, Holly Hills, Bevo Mill or Lafayette Sqaure. This list of good neighborhoods in st.louis is endless.

Seriously, they are rich and middle class people in st.louis. And the reason why some neighbourhoods are extemely bad is because people moved in to the suburbs, left the metro area in general or moved to other parts of the city. Places in south st.louis are gaining population because people flee north st.louis.

Third, There is no reason to go into northside anyways (Unless you work in a factory or you are desperate so you need a job there).
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: South St. Louis City
54 posts, read 52,851 times
Reputation: 17
I think anybody that wants to isolate St. Louis for having ghettos is a total idiot! I have traveled almost every major city in this country for work and pleasure, not to mention many cities in Europe. NOT ONE major city (or even smaller city) didn't have areas like North St. Louis or East St. Louis. It is more noticable, the smaller the city. You may not notice the slums of Chicago because the city is so big. When talking about
cities in Europe, only misinformed or uneducated people, try to compare cities in Europe or other countries, to those in the US. There may be some similarities, but that is about as far as it goes. In the US, we have the ability to sprawl and sprawl until our hearts content. That give people the ability to abandon areas and just start over and build new towns in the burbs, ie..the massive explosion of development in St. Charles County. Where do you think those people came from?? North County and before that, North City. In Europe, that cannot be done. The majority of the population stays in cities, farms the rural areas.
In Europe, the cities have been around WAY longer than those in the US. The infrastructure is very established and the architecture dates back centuries. Preserving that history is not a even a question. Those countries want to preserve their identity through their cities. In the US, we have a melting pot. It is a completely different dynamic. Not not mention, a lot of cities like St. Louis boomed during the industrial revolution, then saw many people leave for the frontier states to the west, where free land,great resources and jobs were promised. Did you forget the whole "Gateway to the West" thing!!?
The author of this thread is clearly misinformed and did not see the MAJORITY of the metro area, that makes people who live here proud to say that. We know there are issues. What city doesn't have issues. To compare a metro area of 3 million people or even a city of 320K, to a third world slum, based upon a small % of bad places you saw, is absolutely idiotic. Visit a slum in Brazil or Mexico, then tell me North St. Louis is "third world". Don't compare US cities to those in Europe. Just shows how uninformed you are. Totally different dynamics, demographics, geography, history, sprawl patterns, available land, government policy, etc..etc.. etc...
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Paris
838 posts, read 459,952 times
Reputation: 467
7 pages? Not bad trolling OP... But seriously though, this is pretty delusional. In some points, or at least on some level, I actually agree with some of the OP's "critiques" of the US and I have quite a few thoughts on them based on my travels and life abroad, but wow did this thread go (start?) off the deep end fast... This could be an interesting conversation, but after I reached the madness of no slums in Europe, you can't tell who is wealthy or poor, etc. Just... wow. I mean, I knew this was probably trolling based on the intentionally offensive title, but how are you expecting people to buy this??? Sorry OP, you can't just tell me to "travel more" as a mindless deflection as you've tried with some. Just tonight I was in the metro here in Paris and I had to change at Place d'Italie for example. Hey, I wonder if all these people sleeping in the metro are poor? Wealthy maybe? It sure is hard to tell here! And no slums??? I agree that cities in the US can having some rather shocking bombed out looking areas, and there is plenty of interesting conversation to be had about it, but you clearly don't seem interested in a thoughtful discourse...

Last edited by Caesarstl; 11-09-2012 at 06:27 PM..
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