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I'm looking into relocating from NC (dreadful here) and have narrowed down my choices, with St. Louis being top choice on my list, after reading up on the area more. I have two young kids, 9 and 2 (will be 10 and 3 by the time I move) and I work from home, earning around $42k a year, so I need to be somewhere affordable, but I don't want to be near any dangerous parts of town. Having kids, an area that is close to nice, safe parks and activities would be great, although I don't mind driving to get to them either. I'd also like an area with good schools/pre-schools. I read the the county schools are much better than in the city??? I am black, but I'd like an area that is as diverse as I could possibly get it (more than just black or white). I have a car that I will bring with me, but is it possible to get to many places via walking or biking? I know I probably won't get everything I'm looking for, but affordability, safe surroundings and good schools are priority over everything else.
Hi there. Welcome to the forum. Walkability is going to be the toughest for you to find given your other requirements. City schools really aren't an option - I hate to be harsh about it but I think it is pretty well documented that St. Louis city schools are among the poorest performing in the nation. You will get a lot of different advice here about which suburban community you should target - options abound. Sounds like you are probably looking to rent? $900-$1000 per month as an upper limit? Others will chime in once you get those constraints specified. In terms of schools, obviously a good public district should be your priority, but if you and your kids are really motivated, you might consider applying to nice private schools in the area - they always have financial help for a limited number of applicants and if there is a good match could be a very enriching environment for your kids, and give you more options for walkable, vibrant communities to work-from-home in.
Hello!
I recently moved back to St. Louis from North Carolina also (I agree- it's DREADFUL there!) so I hope I'll be able to offer some good advice! I'll answer your questions as best as I can!
Affordability: Most of the St. Louis area is very affordable, especially when compared to a lot of North Carolina. Obviously there are some more expensive parts where housing is at a premium, but overall, St. Louis is a lot cheaper than a lot of cities with a similar level of amenities offered
Dangerous Parts of Town: Rule of thumb is generally to stay out of North City and East St. Louis. There are also parts of inner North County (South of I-270 and East of I-70 with a few exceptions and North of I-270 and East of 367) which are a bit worse for wear nowadays. Finding a safe place however that's also affordable still isn't hard!
Good Schools: With school-age children, assuming that you're going to be sending them to Public School, I'd definitely not consider St. Louis City itself. St. Louis City Schools lost their accreditation some years back, and although they're working to improve their reputation, they still have a long way to go. Schools in the county are far superior.
Diversity: Again, that shouldn't be a problem. The areas I will suggest will have some degree of diversity in addition to your above requirements
Transport: In my opinion, if you're going to be living in the county you're DEFINITELY going to need your car. St. Louis County and surrounds are definitely spread out. Depending on which locale you choose, will depend on whether it's walkable or not. My DH plans to ride his bicycle to work on a frequent basis now that the weather has cleared up (about 8 miles one way), and if I wasn't almost 7 months pregnant I could technically walk to our local Barnes & Noble and Grocery Store (about 1.5 miles one way, mostly down suburban streets)! However, the neighborhoods which are truly walkable and have a town center per se (such as Webster Groves, Kirkwood, etc) are often far more expensive I would like to add however, that St. Louis has some excellent cycling trails if you and your family enjoy biking on the weekend!
My Suggestions:
-Maryland Heights: I used to live in Maryland Heights before I moved to North Carolina. I loved it. Although it's predominantly Caucasian, it still offers a growing level of diversity with more middle class African American families moving into the area. It's also got a fairly sizable Asian population. Maryland Heights is mostly in the Pattonville School District which is good, although part of it is in Parkway which is also very good. It's very safe and offers all of your basic amenities (major grocery store, Starbucks, St. Louis Bread Co, amongst other basic stores and restaurants), and is home to Creve Coeur Lake Park which is gorgeous in Summer, especially for walking / biking near.
-Florissant: I currently live in Florissant so I'm going to throw it out there! Honestly, there are good and 'bad' parts of Florissant, but DH & I have been extremely happy with where we've ended up. I'm just a stones throw from amenities (Grocery Stores, Target, Barnes & Noble, Marshalls, in addition to an array of restaurants including both Mom & Pop institutions and Chains), as well as being right near the Civic Center which has a park, Ice Rink, Theater and community facilities. As I mentioned before, I'm expecting my first child so I've been doing research as far as what is on offer for children in our local area- Florissant definitely offers an array of children's activities for a minimal fee, offered through the city. I know that other municipalities in St. Louis County have similar offerings, but I was definitely pleased with the array that Florissant seems to have! A possible downer is the school district. It's okay- and not bad by any means (Ferg-Flor School District) but it's not great. With that said though, all of my neighbors children are currently attending or did attend Ferg Flor schools and they've all been happy with the level of education on offer.
The major plus about Florissant is the affordability factor- it's VERY affordable while still remaining safe and convenient. As for diversity, again, not a problem. Out of my immediate neighbors, there are two Caucasian families (including us), two Bi-Racial families, one African American family and one Asian family. I've honestly been overwhelmed at how much of a community spirit seems to thrive in my section of the neighborhood- all of my neighbors are fantastic. When DH & I moved here back in December, literally all the neighbors turned out to help us unload the uhaul! You don't get that just anywhere!
Northwest County (St. Ann, Bridgeton, etc): Part of this area is in the Pattonville School District but part would be in Rittenour. I think Rittenour is okay but not great- if you could find a location within the Pattonville School District however that would be ideal as the areas are more affordable than Maryland Heights proper. There's also plenty of amenities along St. Charles Rock Rd. The further ins and outs of the area however would be better discussed by flynavyj, another poster on here as he lives in the St. Ann area.
Olivette: Sometimes, affordable properties do emerge in Olivette. The hugest advantage of the area is the fact that it feeds into the Ladue School District, which without a doubt is the premier school district in St. Louis.
Other areas to consider include Webster Groves and Kirkwood and surrounds as their school districts are also excellent- however- they are more expensive and you won't get as much 'bang for your buck' when it comes to housing.
I hope that helps your search to begin with!
Good Luck to you!
Also, are you renting or buying, and what is your house size requirement and ideal budget? That would help us narrow down your options a bit more
I hope you love it here! You're making the right move!
You will get a lot of different advice here about which suburban community you should target - options abound. Sounds like you are probably looking to rent? $900-$1000 per month as an upper limit?
Yep that's exactly the case. Don't want to spend any more than $1000/mo.
Quote:
Also, are you renting or buying, and what is your house size requirement and ideal budget? That would help us narrow down your options a bit more
I am renting, 3 br is ideal if possible in the $900-$1000 range, maybe could get by with 2 if not.
Thanks so much for the breakdown, glamatomic! Really, really gave me a better understanding and now I'm really excited about getting out of NC! Both Maryland Heights and Florissant sound like great places (kinda liking Florissant a little more I think), so I'll be looking further into those.
I would highly suggest looking at Maplewood-Richmond Heights School district which serves the cities of Maplewood and Richmond Heights, and Webster Groves School District which serves Webster Groves, Glendale, and parts of Shrewsbury.
I currently substitute teach in Maplewood-Richmond Heights. The district and surrounding area is very diverse. The district is also extremely progressive in that all students 6th grade and above get their own apple laptops to use in class and for homework. The middle school uses a "learning as expedition" educational model where 25% of the curriculum is taught outside of the classroom. The teacher-student ratios are very low as well. Plus being an inner-ring suburb you are very close to the amenities that the city has to offer without having to deal with the substandard schools. The only drawback is that if you look up their test scores they do not compare with some of the other suburban districts. But having taught here for a year I can tell you that the low scores are more a product of having a number of low achieving students and not a product of the education the students are receiving.
I live in Webster Groves and have two kids, ages 10 and 13 in the Webster Groves School District. I love the area and district. Webster is also diverse although not quite to the level of Maplewood-Richmond Heights. Webster's school districts scores are better than MRH, and the area is a little more affluent. You'd have a more difficult time finding a home in your preferred price range I believe.
Yep that's exactly the case. Don't want to spend any more than $1000/mo.
I am renting, 3 br is ideal if possible in the $900-$1000 range, maybe could get by with 2 if not.
Thanks so much for the breakdown, glamatomic! Really, really gave me a better understanding and now I'm really excited about getting out of NC! Both Maryland Heights and Florissant sound like great places (kinda liking Florissant a little more I think), so I'll be looking further into those.
I've honestly been SO happy with Florissant! There are a lot of North County naysayers around (unfortunately, due to areas like Spanish Lake, some people tend to think that the problems extend to all of NoCo which is totally not the case!) but my experience thus far here has been so positive and I have no qualms about raising my family here
Like I said, the best thing about Florissant is the bang for your buck- a quick search on zillow shows an array of 3 bedroom, single family homes for $1000 or less.
I'm not sure where exactly in NC you're moving from (I spent 4+ years in Jacksonville- hole of the world!) but admittedly, housing stock in a lot of St. Louis County is older than what I became accustomed to in NC, but because I'm all about 'Mid Century Mod' I actually see that as a positive. You'll find that Florissant homes are predominantly from the 1950s and 1960s. One big plus though, is that being the midwest, most homes have basements (I never came across a basement in ENC) so it's extra living + storage space
I noticed that scocar also suggested Kirkwood and Webster Groves, with the additions of Maplewood, Brentwood and Richmond Heights. While they're all great areas, I think it would be extremely difficult to find a family home for $1000 or less in any of these areas. Not entirely impossible, but it wouldn't be easy. Also, crime in Richmond Heights, Maplewood and Brentwood is actually higher than in Florissant (property crime in particular- I wouldn't consider any of these areas 'dangerous' however, just statistically they have higher crime than the national average). The positives however, like scocar said, are the school districts. Webster Groves & Kirkwood however are very safe, statistically speaking and in practice.
I love Northwest County, but I grew up here, as well as moved back when my wife and I returned to St. Louis. The location is great for being close to highways and providing a short 20-25 minute commute to the city, as well as a short drive to St. Charles, Kirkwood, etc.
As Glam stated, St. Ann is split between two districts with Pattonville being the more desirable of the two. St. Ann is somewhat diverse with working class white, black, and hispanic families being the major players. The city just elected their first hispanic police chief, who is also a lifetime resident of the area. Homes here are smaller than those in Bridgeton and Maryland Heights, with many dating to the 1940's, and having 2 bedrooms. Lots are large, and there are still a fair number of 3 Br homes around, just not many newer than the 1950's at latest...a few homes were built within the last 20 years, but not many.
The entire Northwest county area has lots of local shopping and food, low crime, and decent schools as stated. The renovation at the old Northwest Plaza is finally underway, and a Menards will be joining the group soon...I've heard rumors of a Bass Pro Shop relocation, but i'll believe that when I see something firm in writing. Either way, my wife and I are very happy in this location, we've had great neighbors, a huge yard, nice home, and great garage (that parts for me), so I'd happily recommend NW County to anyone looking for an affordable, centrally located, place to call home!
I'm a life-long St. Louisan who only moved out of the area last year to take a new job. (I'm up in Maryland now.)
Have you considered Kirkwood, MO? The downtown is great for kids/family (live bands playing once a week all summer long, for free -- a farmer's market, the "Magic House" childrens' museum right there, an Amtrack train station, etc. You wouldn't want to actually look for real-estate right in the heart of downtown Kirkwood, mind you, because the condos are going to be high rent in most cases. (Downtown Kirkwood has a bit of an "ego problem" that it's more upscale and affluent than the bulk of the community really is.) But venture down one of the intersecting streets a little ways and you can find the occasional 3 bedroom rental home for around the $1000/month range. (The house next door to the one I lived in was rented out for right around that price.) I suggest looking at homes surrounding St. Louis Community College at Meramec, for example.
Kirkwood has generally good public schools and is centrally located. (You have easy access to Interstate 44 and you're about the same distance away to drive east into St. Louis city itself as you are to drive west into suburbs like Ballwin, Ellisville or Wildwood.)
I used to live in the Florissant / North County area too, but I'd be a little more hesitant to recommend it. The people who posted above sound like they found good neighborhoods and are happy. But the whole area around Northwest Plaza was REALLY in decline when I last drove through there about a year ago. I know it's getting knocked down and re-imagined into something new -- but that HAD to happen because the old mall utterly failed. For a long time, that whole area was really struggling. A lot of the restaurants along St. Charles Rock Road went out of business, I know. Used to be that was practically a "restaurant row" up there with Red Lobster, Casa Gallardo, Applebee's, etc. etc. All of them went under, last I saw.
I still have friends who live in decent, inexpensive houses off of Lindbergh (I-67) up in North County -- but frankly, they're up there out of financial necessity above all else. (They got approved for a loan on a property up there because so many have gone into foreclosure and others simply wanted to sell so they could "move up" to something bigger in a little bit more affluent part of town when they got a better job.)
All in all though? St. Louis really is a good choice for a family with kids. It's chock-full of kid and family friendly things to see and do, and the cost of living is really low. Biggest negatives I *always* hear about St. Louis are:
1. It's "clique-y" and hard to make new friends. This is true... but part of it is simply because so many people lived there for MANY years/decades and never wanted to leave. That's a long time to build up circles of friends, and a newcomer will have to make some effort to break into that.
2. The weather. Really hot and humid in July and August, and can be snowy/icy and just downright cold in December through February.
... A lot of the restaurants along St. Charles Rock Road went out of business, I know. Used to be that was practically a "restaurant row" up there with Red Lobster, Casa Gallardo, Applebee's, etc. etc. All of them went under, last I saw...
What you "observed" was incorrect. Casa and Culpepper's did close. Red Lobster and Applebee's are still doing well, along with the majority of other Rock Rd restaurants. The restaurants are in a good location that doesn't compete with restaurants on Dorrset Rd. Additional fast food has also been built near the K-Mart/Sports Authority/Lowes area, and includes an Arby's and White Castle.
The Northwest Plaza renovation is underway, which involves the demolition of the old mall structure, and the reuse of the remaining space as retail, a technical college, and office space. It should be very interesting to see how well this develops, and what all will be in the shopping space. As of now, the only confirmed retailer is the Menard's store, but I'll believe it when I'm shopping in it.
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I would like to add however, that St. Louis has some excellent cycling trails if you and your family enjoy biking on the weekend!
