Is St. Louis a Southern city? (Cape Girardeau, Rolla: pay, hospital, towns)

[Peter1948]

Originally Posted by chitownwarrior

Can you at least admit you are ajf131?

chitown, U146 has multiple aliases. Yet somehow they let him get away with it

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Peter1948

Fair enough, it can show how an outsider's perspective is different than a local. I can tell you for a fact that I have seen a lot of "missing teeth" very southern sounding gas station attendants even in the greater STL area. STL's predilection for fried foods, chicken, and especially the variant on Italian food of fried, er "toasted" ravioli is definitely a southern or at the very least, lowland interior US development. You'd never find toasted or fried ravioli in a Chicago Italian spot, and certainly not under any condition in Italy.

St Louis style ribs, pork, even the ST Louis sandwich...these are all very southern types of foods. The only other city which has a rib style which is prominent that is not southern is KC....also in a partially southern state of MO. All other places known for ribs, pork or que are places like Memphis, Texas, Carolinas, etc. In other words, the south!

Look, I am guessing strongly you guys live within a 3 mile radius of Forest park, or Soulard, or downtown or clayton or a yuppie burb like Ballwin. Sure there is nothing southern about those neighborhoods. But theres also 0% southern about the Highlands in Louisville, or Buckhead in Atlanta, or The Gulch in Nashville. You can barely even hear southern accents in those areas!

But there are plenty of places, specially in the south side of the STL CSA that seem quite southern, at least 20%. Certainly to someone from Chicago.

I'm from South St. Louis county which I still consider Stl county and stl basically same thing. It's south of there that the transition zone begins. I notice some subtle signs once you get further south into rural Jefferson county, and a bit more around Farmington, and then when you're in Madison County around Cherokee Pass then it's mainly southern down there. It depends how you define the metro area and how many counties which include parts of southern IL. I don't know any mathematical way to explain it though since none of the CSA is in the south since Madison County MO isn't included in the Stl MSA usually. I'd say the overall metro area is maybe 20 percent southern influence. NO that' doesn't mean St. Louis is southern! I'm saying as a MSA overall it's 20 percent southern influence which still isn't a lot but the rural counties southern IL and southern parts of Franklin and Jefferson County have some hints of it too.

If you're going by MSA I'd say 20 percent of it is transition zone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_St._Louis

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by U146

Fine, but this is a mere influence. It doesn't mean St. Louis is Southern or that it's enough to call its identity into question.His use of the word partly is also inappropriate because 20% is far from being "partly Southern." Culturally, linguistically, and demographically this city is not Southern. Yet Peter1948 continues to insist it's identity is mixed and in the same class as Louisville. It's not. Louisville is culturally and linguistically a Southern city. St. Louis isn't. St. Louis has more in common with Cincinnati, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago than Louisville. All the natives like us tell him that and he continues to insist he knows better than we do. He lives in a Southern city, resents its Southerness and wants it to be Midwestern, so in order to make Louisville seem less Southern he takes the Southern influences of St. Louis and Cincinnati and magnifies them so they seem much bigger than they actually are. It's ridiculous. I admit our city has Southern influences but they aren't nearly enough to the point where the city's Midwestern identity is called into question.

True. I said about 10 percent southern influence, maybe 15 is pushing it. If it were 20 percent I'd be putting it into the transition zone then because transition zone can lean either more Midwestern or more southern. Now if you're south of St. Louis, then yes I think that can be included in the transition zone even though it starts of mostly Midwestern gradually picking up heavier southern influence as you move south. Missouri's biggest cities, KC, Stl, and Columbia are all lower Midwestern.

The biggest cities that are in the southern zone, laying right on the line literally are Springfield, and Cape Girardeau. Like Brad Pitt says, Springfield literally lays right on the line. Otherwise the heavy population areas of Missouri all lay within the Midwestern zone except some of the far Eastern KC suburbs have some southern influence maybe, Little Dixie.

[Peter1948]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

I'm from South St. Louis county which I still consider Stl county and stl basically same thing. It's south of there that the transition zone begins. I notice some subtle signs once you get further south into rural Jefferson county, and a bit more around Farmington, and then when you're in Madison County around Cherokee Pass then it's mainly southern down there. It depends how you define the metro area and how many counties which include parts of southern IL. I don't know any mathematical way to explain it though since none of the CSA is in the south since Madison County MO isn't included in the Stl MSA usually. I'd say the overall metro area is maybe 20 percent southern influence. NO that' doesn't mean St. Louis is southern! I'm saying as a MSA overall it's 20 percent southern influence which still isn't a lot but the rural counties southern IL and southern parts of Franklin and Jefferson County have some hints of it too.

If you're going by MSA I'd say 20 percent of it is transition zone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_St._Louis

MOforthewin, you are the most reasonable person in this argument and I think what you and I are saying is that we essentially agree. The STL CSA is 20% very solid southern, and you start noticing this especially south of STL county (although I have seen some southern elements in STL county proper).

Don't forget the IL suburbs. Some feel very southern. I had a client a few years ago at Red Bug Regional Hospital in Illinois. It felt like rural KY or TN

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by Peter1948

MOforthewin, you are the most reasonable person in this argument and I think what you and I are saying is that we essentially agree. The STL CSA is 20% very solid, and you start noticing this especially south of STL county (although I have seen some southern elements in STL county proper).

Don't forget the IL suburbs. Some feel very southern. I had a client a few years ago at Red Bug Regional Hospital in Illinois. It felt like rural KY or TN

Red Bud isn't apart of the the Metro East. It's in Randolph County, which is outside of the St. Louis Metro area. It is close to the outskirts of the Metro East though. The majority of the IL population is in St. Clair and Madison Counties.

It's rural, but rural Tennessee and much of Kentucky would be a stretch.

[Peter1948]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

Red Bud isn't apart of the the Metro East. It's in Randolph County, which is outside of the St. Louis Metro area. It is close to the outskirts of the Metro East though. The majority of the IL population is in St. Clair and Madison Counties.

It's rural, but rural Tennessee and much of Kentucky would be a stretch.

That's a technicality since its a few miles outside the metro east counties. Anywho, I thought St Elizabeth's in Belleville felt very southern too. I met two staff there that were very country and southern. Not sure where they lived though.

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by Peter1948

That's a technicality since its a few miles outside the metro east counties. Anywho, I thought St Elizabeth's in Belleville felt very southern too. I met two staff there that were very country and southern. Not sure where they lived though.

Still, the part that it's in is essentially the boonies. I went to grade school in Belleville, high school in St. Louis, etc, and Red Bud was rather "country" from Belleville's standpoint. It was never considered Southern by any means though. The core of the Metro East is essentially running between Edwardsville and Belleville. Even towns like Waterloo and Columbia were rather small and out of the way. Monroe County has been seeing a lot of development since then though, as there's a push further east in parts of the Metro East.

As for Belleville, there's nothing Southern or country about it. It wouldn't be uncommon for someone to commute to a job in a hospital there though. Belleville has both St. Elizabeth's and Memorial, and it would cut an additional 20-30 minutes (possibly more) off a commute that would be needed for a hospital in St. Louis or much of St. Louis County. St. Elizabeth's will be moving to O'Fallon though, so that might make some commutes easier or harder for some of the staff.

[Yeadon718]

Yes

[Peter1948]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

Still, the part that it's in is essentially the boonies. I went to grade school in Belleville, high school in St. Louis, etc, and Red Bud was rather "country" from Belleville's standpoint. It was never considered Southern by any means though. The core of the Metro East is essentially running between Edwardsville and Belleville. Even towns like Waterloo and Columbia were rather small and out of the way. Monroe County has been seeing a lot of development since then though, as there's a push further east in parts of the Metro East.

As for Belleville, there's nothing Southern or country about it. It wouldn't be uncommon for someone to commute to a job in a hospital there though. Belleville has both St. Elizabeth's and Memorial, and it would cut an additional 20-30 minutes (possibly more) off a commute that would be needed for a hospital in St. Louis or much of St. Louis County. St. Elizabeth's will be moving to O'Fallon though, so that might make some commutes easier or harder for some of the staff.

Yeah Belleville felt mostly Midwest, but I noticed a "southern twinge" The cafeteria in St. E's also had sweet tea and corn bread.

[Peter1948]

Originally Posted by U146

Fine, but this is a mere influence. It doesn't mean St. Louis is Southern or that it's enough to call its identity into question.His use of the word partly is also inappropriate because 20% is far from being "partly Southern." Culturally, linguistically, and demographically this city is not Southern. Yet Peter1948 continues to insist it's identity is mixed and in the same class as Louisville. It's not. Louisville is culturally and linguistically a Southern city. St. Louis isn't. St. Louis has more in common with Cincinnati, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago than Louisville. All the natives like us tell him that and he continues to insist he knows better than we do. He lives in a Southern city, resents its Southerness and wants it to be Midwestern, so in order to make Louisville seem less Southern he takes the Southern influences of St. Louis and Cincinnati and magnifies them so they seem much bigger than they actually are. It's ridiculous. I admit our city has Southern influences but they aren't nearly enough to the point where the city's Midwestern identity is called into question.

U146 do you even read my posts? STL is a MIDWEST CITY. Mostly. It has a southern twinge to it. I think the CSA is a solid 20% southern. I could care less what STL is, but that is what it is.