Is St. Louis a Southern city? (Kansas City, Springfield: school, income, living)

[MJ7]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

I don't have a problem with southerners at all. My whole family came from southern Missouri and most of them still live there. I also spent time in Louisiana and Georgia as well as Florida. But (when I was there at least) a lot of people in Middleburg, Florida were racists and people used the N-word on a daily basis, and I knew people that were involved with the KKK or had family members that were. Also there was a serious drug problem in the entire town, and I'm not talking about weed either.

So no I don't have a problem with people from the south, but just this town that was not a great place to be in the 90's. Like i said though I haven't been there in years, so it might be completely different today.

anytime you see boiled peanuts for sale on the side of the road, thats when you know its the south...

i actually went to branson missouri for work once, it was pretty funny

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Spent time in Jacksonville in the 90's, and there were lots of southern people there. They have a suburb called Middleburg that was basically Georgia. Green Cove Springs wasn't much better, but then you go the next town over to St. Augustine, and that didn't feel southern at all. It's been years since I was there though so things may have changed.

I sort of get the idea you're applying the term "Southern" to what is actually a "trashy" variant of the lower-class. They are not one and the same. I looked up Middleburg, FL and as I suspected it's a very low-end white community. The less than 9% college graduation rate tells all. At any rate, it sounds like an unique and interesting place. I'd like to see what it's like first hand. Places like Council Bluffs, IA, and Independence, MO, are similar demographically, but I'm not sure either of those places is "Southern".

http://www.city-data.com/city/Middleburg-Florida.html

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

I sort of get the idea you're applying the term "Southern" to what is actually a "trashy" variant of the lower-class. They are not one and the same. I looked up Middleburg, FL and as I suspected it's a very low-end white community. The less than 9% college graduation rate tells all. At any rate, it sounds like an unique and interesting place. I'd like to see what it's like first hand. Places like Council Bluffs, IA, and Independence, MO, are similar demographically, but I'm not sure either of those places is "Southern".

http://www.city-data.com/city/Middleburg-Florida.html

Uh no you are incorrect in your assumption that I think Southern = White trash. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.

Middleburg did not look like Miami. It looked like Georgia. Most people in the town drove pickup trucks, the town was full of dirt roads, most people lived in the woods. It was very Southern.

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by zach_33

^Lynyrd Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet reign from Jacksonville - heck yeah it's southern.

Yeah I went to school with Ronnie's daughter Melody Van Zant for a while. They built Ronnie Van Zant memorial park not far from our house. You heard Lynyrd Skynyrd on the radio every 15 minutes down there and people never got sick of it

[MJ7]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Yeah I went to school with Ronnie's daughter Melody Van Zant for a while. They built Ronnie Van Zant memorial park not far from our house. You heard Lynyrd Skynyrd on the radio every 15 minutes down there and people never got sick of it

sweet, do you actually play a dreadnought? i play a cutaway

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by MJ7

sweet, do you actually play a dreadnought? i play a cutaway

I try, but I'm no good. My dad was an amazing guitar player, although he just played for fun. He passed away though. Way too young!

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Uh no you are incorrect in your assumption that I think Southern = White trash. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.

Middleburg did not look like Miami. It looked like Georgia. Most people in the town drove pickup trucks, the town was full of dirt roads, most people lived in the woods. It was very Southern.

Okay. I'm not familiar with Jacksonville or Florida at all. Let me ask you this, in what non white-trash or rural ways is Jacksonville Southern, if at all? Are you able to acknowledge and articulate what is and isn't Southern when it doesn't include anything that is white trash or rural?

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

Okay. I'm not familiar with Jacksonville or Florida at all. Let me ask you this, in what non white-trash or rural ways is Jacksonville Southern, if at all? Are you able to acknowledge and articulate what is and isn't Southern when it doesn't include anything that is white trash or rural?

Sure, but to be perfectly honest I don't really care about this place anymore. The only reason I even brought it up was because someone started talking about how northern Florida is like Southern Georgia, and that reminded me of Middleburg. Like I said earlier in the thread I did not enjoy my time there.

A few things off the top of my head:

1. They speak with southern accents
2. They drive trucks, and love to go mudding in the woods
3. They hunt and fish a lot (not only southerners do this obviously, but they are known for it)
4. Lots of people (even teens) chewed tobacco (dip)
5. EXTREMELY strong family ties - They will die for their family without thinking twice
6. They use Southern terminology like "That kid is pitching a fit"
7. You'll see the confederate flag a lot
8. Good neighbors generally
9. Generally very friendly. Strangers will talk to you like they are your best friend. If you broke down on the side of the road somebody is going to stop and help you 100% of the time.
10. They love country music and southern rock (Lynyrd skynyrd being a home town band)
11. Very religious, mostly Baptist, although not so much the teens. But I don't ever remember hearing somebody proclaim they were an atheist in the 90's in Middleburg Florida like you hear every day these days. Suicide was the worst possible thing you could do. If you did it, your best friends would hate you for life.
12. Everybody was fixin to do this or fixin to do that
13. ya'll
14. Half the town was related to the other half of the town. Half the high school were cousins.
15. Love grits and sweet tea and barbecue, biscuits and gravy, fried turkeys on thanksgiving, They would have fried chicken parties and invite the whole street and fry two hundred pounds of chicken etc. Lots of dishes you wouldn't see in St. Louis. Always looking for an excuse to throw a party and eat. Love their beer, Jack Daniels, Southern Comfort, etc.
16. When we spoke to somebody else's mom we didn't call them jackie we called them Miss Jackie ALWAYS
17. Older women always said things were so lovely
18. When two men had a problem with each other they would meet in "the grass roads" out in the woods, they would bring all their friends to watch, and they would fight. When they were done they would shake hands like gentlemen, the beef had been settled, (they had their sh*t as they would call it), the whole crowd would yell at the top of their lungs "MIDDLEBURG!" and they would probably go drink a beer together. I witnessed this myself numerous times.
19. They were extremely laid back people, they were never in a rush
20. Most of the people in Middleburg didn't go to college because they were often craftsmen. They were skilled construction workers, they had farms and raised cattle or there were dairies in the area, they were cabinet builders etc. Lots joined the Military. The ones that did go to college often didn't come back to small town Middleburg, and moved to bigger cities. Most weren't the type to want to sit in an office all day. Most didn't care about having a big fancy house as long as they had a comfortable life and food on their table.
21. Marriage was important and meant something. I knew lots of people married right out of high school.
22. Everything was a coke even if it was a pepsi. Nobody ever said soda or pop.
23. Everybody had their college sports team. In Middleburg it was split pretty even between Florida and FSU with occasional Georgia fans and Miami fans.
24. Extremely patriotic. Even in that small town we had a 4th of July parade.
25. Hunting gear like Camouflage jackets, overalls, etc. was fashionable, but it was hot so most of the time people just wore shorts and a t-shirt. We didn't get too dressed up.

But like I said on top of this stuff there were lots of people that were racist and on hard drugs so I hated it there. A lot of crazy stuff happened. Nobody would have dreamed about admitting they were gay. I did not know of one single gay person the entire time I was there.

Also, this mostly applies to Middleburg (In the 1990's) and not necessarily downtown Jacksonville. Jacksonville had these people too, but it also had a lot of surfer hippy types that weren't southern at all, and had a lot of more suit wearing business types. It was more sophisticated than backwoods Middleburg, but still was southern compared to South Florida.

*** I Have not been to Middleburg since the 90's - It may be a completely different place today ***

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

....16. When we spoke to somebody else's mom we didn't call them jackie we called them Miss Jackie ALWAYS....

....*** I Have not been to Middleburg since the 90's - It may be a completely different place today ***

Ah, is that a Southern attribute? I wonder if the whole country used to be that way. That's one peculiarity I've noticed with black people, at least in Kansas City. Although I was never sure if it was Southern or simple carried into today from decades ago.

I wouldn't count on it with those demographics. The place sounds like a white working-class stronghold. That type of place doesn't change very fast and has low levels of in/out migration.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

Whatever. At least pick something besides history's armpit to have pride in.

The funny thing is you are one of the most intolerant posters on this forum and you are also racist. You blame the south for sending blacks north, but don't blame the north for white flight and segregation that you see in every northern city.

You sound a bit aryan and almost Nazi in your stated racial preferences.



In other words, I'm sure you are a good liberal.