Need information about St. Louis and Washington U. (Kansas City, Columbia: loft, condos)

[vegaspilgrim]

I'll be applying soon to a one-year Master of Finance degree program at Washington University... which means that if I happen to get in and choose to go there, I'll be living in St. Louis. I'm originally from Denver, born and raised, but right now I'm finishing up my last year of undergrad at Arizona State University in Tempe, AZ (Phoenix metropolitan area), where I've been for most of the last 3.5 years. I cannot wait to get out of here. My plan for a long time has been to move back to Denver (and there's still a big chance that's exactly what I'll do), and go to one of two schools there that offer the degree program I'm interested in-- but I'm applying to schools in other states as well. I've never been to St. Louis before-- or anywhere else in the midwest for that matter (other than a one hour layover in Chicago, which doesn't count). I've always been curious about what it's like out there.

Here are some questions (ok, I admit, a LOT of questions):
1. Exactly how good of a school in Washington University, and the Olin Business School in particular? I know it's a good school, but how good is good? What does it compare to? How do think it compares to University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (the other midwest school on my list)?
2. If I end up going to Washington U., does that mean I will most likely end up working and living in St. Louis after I graduate? Where do recruiters who go to that school come from? If after a year I decided I wanted to move back to Denver after all, would I be able to carry the school's reputation with me there?
3. I know that Edward Jones is headquartered in St. Louis. What other major financial companies are there? Is St. Louis a good place to start a corporate career-- or is it a declining "rust belt" city, as I've heard some people say before on the general US forum? Is the metro area on an upswing or downswing?
4. How would you describe the area of town that Washington U. is located? Is there a college town feel?
5. Does St. Louis have any neighborhood downtowns or small-town downtowns within the core metro area? What part of town would a young, early 20's professional live in?
6. Where do people in St. Louis go on the weekends for a day trip or a weekend getaway?
7. How bad are the bugs-- compared to where I'm coming from?
8. If anybody has ever lived in St. Louis and Denver and can compare the two cities-- please do!
9. What type of person do you think would love St. Louis? What type of person would hate it?
10. Anything else you want to tell me about St. Louis!

[ShadowCaver]

Here be a very brief hit on your queries...
1. Check out Washington University Community Impact Study and Rankings of Washington University in St. Louis (broken link) Me, I've always had high respect for the school. Here be results from this site's surveys: Washington University in St. Louis (StudentsReview) - College Reviews Student Opinion and Undergraduate College Ranking and Comments
2. IMHO, getting a degree from Wash U, man, that opens the door worldwide, I would think. Any amount of schooling you get from there, I believe would be positive experience.
3. This is somewhat dated, but gives good idea of some of the corporations therein: St. Louis Commerce Magazine Check out their home page & archives for further info. Again, just my thoughts, but I do believe StL is on the upswing.
4. Depends on what "College town" means to a person I would suppose, but the campus is nice, and then ya have Forest Park just to the east, and then a great night life and social areas nearby too; along w/ fairly nice tram ride to downtown events.
5. Yeap, and again depends on your own personal tastes, but, for example, again to mention University City [], and then there are many other niche areas: The Hill, Soulard, etc... Check out the following:
St. Louis - GLBT Travel Top 10
St. Louis Neighborhoods [St Louis city]
Out and About (broken link)
6. The Ozarks! The city itself [Muny, Landing, etc.], Chicago, state/national parks on both IL and MO areas, rivers, etc...
7. There are no bugs to speak of...
8. Just a couple days in Denver, so can't say...
9. Love it: someone that is not expecting NYC, Boston, SF, LA, etc type of town... StL is smaller, closer-knit yet is still fun, exciting, and has its own charm. Those that hate it I would imagine don't cater to city of its size or style. Me, its great - just wish the riverfront was better... Nevertheless, there are many positives in and surrounding the city.
10. ummm,,, it has a big curvy thing made of stainless steel sticking out of the dirt?



ps: just did a compare, for the sake of it, between Wash U and mine, UMR:
Washington University in St. Louis (StudentsReview) - Alumni College Reviews and salaries, job satisfaction, and comments
The University of Missouri Rolla (StudentsReview) - Alumni College Reviews and salaries, job satisfaction, and comments
If a person can put faith into such replies, they being honest and accurate and really semi-representing reality, then surprising, for example the 10-year salaries... hmmmm... And then think about the cost differential between the two schools... interesting. However, only 7 replies for UMR and 11 for Wash U...

[aragx6]

Shadowcaver pretty much hit the nail on the head with his answers.
If you can get into Wash U I'd go for sure. It's a far better school than University of Illinois, and Urbana-Champaign is one of the more boring places on earth. A degree from Wash U will get you anywhere you need to go, and I guarantee it.

There's a lot happening in St. Louis right now as far as revitalization goes. It is a rust belt city, and it went through some bad times, but things are really looking up and people are getting excited.

I would definitely live in the Central West End. It is right near your school, has access to the metrolink (It's a pretty minimal public transit system, but when I was a kid there was nothing, so that's a start.) which goes downtown etc. And the neighborhood itself is cool,. There are a lot of great restaurants and the nightlife is great.

[vegaspilgrim]

Thanks, Shadowcaver and aragx6. I've been doing some more reading about Wash U and what I'm hearing sounds pretty attractive to me. I'm curious, though, aragx6, why do you say Wash U is far better than UIUC? Also, to throw another comparison out there-- how would say Wash U compares to Vanderbilt University?

A few more questions (hopefully this isn't too annoying):
1. Do you know any websites or threads on this forum with pictures of the Central West End?
2. How high is the risk of flooding and/or tornadoes in St Louis? Are certain areas at higher risk than others?
3. I've been all over the western US, but know very little about the eastern half of the country. The only place I've recently been to east of the Rocky Mountains is the Washington DC area (Maryland suburbs) and northern Virginia. The several times I've been there I've always been amazed by how green and "foresty" everything feels, compared to the sparse, brown, wide-open feel you get in Denver and Phoenix. Even right in the middle of the DC metro area, it feels like the freeways and other roads cut through a forest, plus with big rivers and historic towns all over the place. Does St Louis look more like that, or is it more like Denver, or something in the middle? I know that I need to visit there and see it for myself (I'd like to take a trip out there soon), but I'm trying to picture what it would be like. And how does St. Louis look in the winter?

[aragx6]

Far better was probably an unfair thing to say, as both are great schools. In the Us News and World Report rankings Wash U is always ranked in the very top tier - in fact I just read it is ranked 12 in national universities in the US for 2008 and is considered highly selective. University of Illinois is one of the best public schools in the nation and they have a really good rep where business is concerned, and according to the 2008 rankings they are 38, and considered "more selective"

There are floods that hit St. Louis (the Great Flood of '93 being the worst instance in our lifetimes, but will affect the areas in the river valley, probably not a concern to someone looking at the Wash U area. Tornadoes too happen, but ones in the city are especially rare. You'll see them them happen more in the suburbs and metro area.

St. Louis is very forested and has rolling hills (not flat like you think of Kansas and corn fields) there are two major rivers that run though the area which creates that same feel, and there are historic towns all along the rivers, thoguh not as many as DC probably has.


Pic of the CWE:
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/aallred/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

[Fishtacos]

Wash. U....or Washoo is how 99percent of the people say the name of the school. It's academically on par with the Ivy League schools. Athletically in Division III for example the school competes with the U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon and so on...other top academic schools....As long as people had the money, most would attend Wash U over SLU. Nothing against SLU which is a good school. SLU's national reputation isn't the same as Wash U. Wash U gets a large percentage of undergrads from the East Coast/Northeast. It's reputation there is very strong. You won't have that same reputation for SLU or U of I nationally, though again, U of I(Illinois) is a good school, with a good reputation.

Wash U is a medium sized academic school. It isn't a huge public sports are huge 50,000 school like ASU. It will be much smaller and much more Harvard looking in appearance and size. SLU gets a regional student population. U of I mostly gets an in state population, half from Chicago area and half from down state Illinois. It is true that U of I is smack in the cornfields, and not a lot going on other than the typical big state school undergrad things.

Wash U will open doors for jobs outside of St. Louis if that is what you seek, especially regionally, Chicago and other cities routinely recruit on campus. I don't believe it is a pick anywhere in the country right your own ticket, but many more doors will open for you.

Wash U is located in suburban St. Louis, close to the city. It's in an upper middle class part of town. To the West of Campus is the upper middle class city of Clayton, MO, a wealthy enclave of business, attorneys and so on...and the East End of Campus is Forest Park, one of the largest Urban Parks in the U.S.(see other threads here)....SLU is on the East end of Forest Park in the Western part of the city, more urban than Wash U. The Central West End borders the park and SLU...and is an ecclectic area. Also, the U. City loop is close by with more ecclectic people and places and side walk cafes......the school provides a free shuttle to U.City, Central West End, etc....and the area has tons of Wash U students undergrad and grad.

Check out Clayton, U. City Loop, Central West End, Tower Grove, Washington Ave(downtown loft district of condos and nightlife) as possible places to live.

The former backup quarterback of the St. Louis Rams played football at Harvard and often compared the two simialr looking campus'.

St. Louis and Denver are different. Denver is all about the outdoors, open space, scenic, etc....St. Louis, the city, is a very urban stretch of red brick buildings, old historic neighborhoods....with a lot of suburban sprawl 15-30 minutes outside of it. St. Louis is comparable in size to Baltimore. It's currently on the upswing. It's larger than all of the other Midwest metros except Chicago, which is 3 times the size of St. Louis. Denver is more of a relocation destination city for many young people, a regional spot.

St. Louis side trips....Chicago is 4.5 hr drive, or less than 1 hr flight, Columbia(U of Missouri) is within 2 hrs, Lake of the Ozarks(think Lake Havasu, not literally but just for reference) is a few hr drive. KC is about 3 plus hrs West. Several other Midwest cities are in that 3-5 hr drive range.

This is only my experience but many East Coasters have visited or moved to St. Louis that I know of and stayed or liked it more than perhaps your West Coast crowd. Only my experience. It's a Midwestern City, but compares more to some Eastern Cities than Western. Kansas City starts that plains and Western feel.

Chicago is the big regional melting pot city for much of the Midwest. St. Louis has a lot to do, and offers many things. Some people take advantage of them and some don't. Usually the ones who don't are the complainers. It's a medium sized metro, not unlike Denver in that size regard. It's very family oriented. It is a great place for familes and a great place to be a kid. It isn't a hot place to be a single 20-30 something imo...but to me there are only so many of those types of cities out there. Phoenix for example imo is not a great place for the single 20-30 something set.

Wash U is in medium sized city, is a medium sized school,(downright small compared to what you are coming from) it's near plenty of things to do. It's in a nice part of town, St. Louis has four equal seasons for weather, nto the 300 days of sun, but plenty of 200, unlike some other Midwestern cities, ...

There are other side trip outdoor pursuits.

St. Louis as I said would compare more favorbaly to your experience in D.C. and parts of MD and VA....it is not like any of the Western Plains, or Southwest. Not close. It isn't a finished product by any means. St. Louis has some problems with local govt and getting things done in a swift manner. There is still plenty of areas of urban decay and remnants of an old rustbelt city...however, there are many other positives that outweigh the negatives too.

Vanderbilt is also a great school, similar in size to Wash U....also a beautiful campus, Vandy has one of most beautiful campus' in the country, it is much more of a Southern school than Wash U....Think regionally of the Southeast....the SEC school for smart kids. Vanderbilt I know has tried to broaden its reputation more Nationally, especially in the Northeast in recent years, making it a priority....however Wash U has long had a large student population from there. Neither school has many students from the Western part of the U.S. Vanderbilt is a closer comparison to Wash U than some of your other mentions. Some programs have better reps than others at each place. Vandy, in Nashville is a pretty easy 5 hr drive from St. Louis. The proximity of cities in the Midwest is much closer than out West, however it is not quite the drive through several states in a couple of hours of the East Coast.

St. Louis is also a big sports town, in particular professional, in particular the baseball Cardinals have a large local, regional and national following, and you'll see a lot of red for 6 months.(but other sports college and pro get their coverage and interest too)......Plenty of other pursuits in the theater and arts and so forth too.....not tons and tons like a big city like Chicago to choose from nightly, but there will always be something to suit your interests.

[bluepencil]

I'm an '06 BSBA graduate of Wash U (Olin, no less), and I can confirm that the quality of the academics is top-notch. The commitment of the professors to their students is amazing, and as a testament to the abilities of graduates from Wash U/Olin, many large financial and investment firms recruit heavily on campus. From my own observations I can also attest that with a degree in Finance, if you were to pursue employment in the field, you'd have a much greater chance of ending up in NYC or Chicago than St. Louis (though St. Louis is a great city -- make sure you do some exploration, since there are some well-hidden pockets in the city that are easy to miss).

[aragx6]

That was a really fantastic round-up from Fishtacos.

[ShadowCaver]

Originally Posted by aragx6

That was a really fantastic round-up from Fishtacos.

Indeed... gave him some points - some more will def be coming - excellent info.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by aragx6

That was a really fantastic round-up from Fishtacos.

Thanks............................