Being non-Catholic in St. Louis (Chesterfield, Kirkwood: neighborhood, school districts, college)

[mjtinmemphis]

jclark1,

I relocated from St. Louis 10 years ago and have lived in Memphis over half of that time, am looking forward to relocating back to the area in 2008.

One of the major differences between St. Louis and Memphis is the cities ability to embrace cultural diversity. (imo, that includes religion) Politically speaking St. Louis is more moderate where as Memphis seemed very conservative. Most conservatives reside outside of I270 loop. But you will never find the "Bible Belt where you go to church" mentality anywhere near St. Louis.

You will rarely meet someone who will ask your religious afiliation when you first meet. Where as Memphians tend to wear their religion on their sleave. (this is not a put down to Memphis but just my personal observation). Nor will you have as many choices within the Baptist denomination. Very few congergations are as conservative as Bellevue.

St. Louisians from my experience don't wear their politics on their sleeves. You will not find the strip clubs or adult book stores like you find in Memphis. However when visiting St. Louis a few years ago I noticed advertisement for the gay black pride festival on the Metro trains. Last time I rolled into St. Louis on I64 I noticed signs advertising a gay dateline. (as you and I both know that would never fly in Memphis) You will also notice more people are prochoice and don't have a problem letting it be known.

St. Louis is a great alternative to Memphis and most Memphians adjust fine after finding their nitch. You may have a rougher time adjusting with the expectations of finding the same culture as you have in Memphis. Make sure you come with an open mind and you will do fine.

[btoverdrive]

The only question you will hear in St Louis is "Where did you go to high school".

[JClark1]

Thanks for all the replies. They're very helpful, especially for the people that have lived in both Memphis and St. Louis. I actually found some statistics on religion in St. Louis County. It's from 2000 so I'm not sure how much has changed. I was surprised that Catholics are not the majority (but they are the largest religion by a long shot), and there is a small but still visible Southern Baptist population.
The Association of Religion Data Archives | Denominations

Here's the one for Memphis if you want to compare
The Association of Religion Data Archives | Denominations

St. Louis is more religiously diverse than I thought. Religious diversity doesn't bother me, I was just afraid of living in an area where one religion was the overwhelming majority. (Something like Utah) But I guess St. Louis isn't anything like that. So aside from religion, is St. Louis really that different from Memphis. It's roughly half way in between Chicago and Memphis but i'm starting to get the feeling that it's a lot more like Chicago than Memphis. I used to think of it as not quite Northern, not quite Southern, but people are making it seem like it's a very Northern city. Is it a liberal/progressive city?

[aragx6]

"Is it a liberal/progressive city"

Good question- St. Louisians have been trying to decide that for a long time. Put 100 people in a room and ask them that questions and you will get such different answers.

As a general rule though- the city and near city is more liberal while the outer-ring suburbs are more conservative.

[mjtinmemphis]

jclark1

Interesting data that you gave about religion. To answer your question about if St. Louis is a progressive city. IMO, it depends upon what you are comparing it to. First you would have to consider St. Louis itself only has 350000 people compared to 600000 in Memphis and 500000 in Nashville. However metro St. Louis has close to 3000000 people almost the size of Memphis and Nashville combined. Therefore there is going to be a totally different vibe.

St. Louis shares some of the same problems with Memphis. Both areas are basically black and white with very little latino and asian representation (though both areas have a growing immigrant population). Both areas are just as segregated and has a long history of racial issues. However St. Louis racial climate will resemble that of Detroit, Cleveland or Pittsburgh more so than Memphis, Jackson Ms. or Little Rock. You will not find nearly as much hostility from blacks towards whites in St. Louis that you would find in Memphis. You will also find whites are not as hostile towards blacks either. St. Louisians just mind their own business and live their lives.

The weather is going to be alot different. St. Louis is just as hot in middle of august as it is in Memphis. However the heat doesn't stick around quite as long. Spring and Fall is flat out beautiful in St. Louis due to the scenery with trees and rolling hills. Memphis tends to be flat with less foliage. Winters are a lot milder in Memphis. You are going to die during your first winter!!! Ice and snow is alot more common but not as common as Chicago and Cleveland.

The economy is alot stronger in St. Louis than in Memphis. Think of a 300lb boxer squaring off in a ring with a 150lb scrawny boxer. They both have a staredown and the scrawny boxer falls over. Thats how the economy in St. Louis stacks up to that of Memphis. Lot more diversity. St. Louis is still in the top 10 metros for fortune 500 companies presence. Last year, St. Louis ranked in the top 10 for Bio Tech industry. Memphis is primarily distribution. St. Louis is a lot easier to find decent work. Not everyone is chasing the same dollar. Though you will find more BMW's, Lexus and Mercedes in the streets in Memphis, you have a much higher forclosure rate and people with bad credit living off of part time income.

As I stated before St. Louis is more tollerant of gays and interacial relationships. However it is not as liberal as coastal cities or our neighbors to the north and west like Minneapolis and Seatle.

The two areas that memphis smashes St. Louis in is cost of housing and taxes. It is now very difficult to find a new 3 bedroom home that is all brick without a extra high price tag. Gasoline prices on average is 10 cents cheaper in St. Louis but they make up for it on personal property taxes on cars every year. There is a state earnings tax 3-6% and a 1% earnings tax if you live within the city limits. I personally believe that food clothing and groceries are cheeper in St. Louis due to the size of the area and competition between chains. But the economic opportunity is far better for the average joe in St. Louis.

I hope this helps. Good luck to you.

[Dan1Dad]

Originally Posted by aragx6

"Is it a liberal/progressive city"

Good question- St. Louisians have been trying to decide that for a long time. Put 100 people in a room and ask them that questions and you will get such different answers.

As a general rule though- the city and near city is more liberal while the outer-ring suburbs are more conservative.

Id have to agree , the city is much more liberal/ progressive than the surrounding areas. Id have to say that Chesterfield and Clarkson Valley is much more conservative and less racial divers than most other areas. Even more so than places like Hillsboro or as far down as Desoto.

[JClark1]

Sorry I havent been on in awhile, but thanks to everyone for the replies.

mjtinmemphis,

A little off subject, but in St. Louis county could I find the types of houses that are in East Memphis? Those nice houses around Poplar and Walnut Grove, in the Oak Court Mall area. We don't live in that area but my wife and I really love East Memphis with it's large, old houses, mature trees, and big enough yards right in the middle of an urban area. We prefer those kinds of neighborhoods to newer, cookie cutter neighborhoods.

[anduarto]

I know what you mean about cookie cutter neighborhoods.

Sounds like you'd enjoy Kirkwood or Webster Groves. They both have gorgeous homes in lovely settings. And they both have charming, lively town centers.

Richmond Heights also comes to mind. As does Clayton and University City, but the latter tend to be more liberal than perhaps you'd like.

The above are all older, more urban feeling suburbs of St. Louis.

There are areas of the city that fit the bill as well. Check out Compton Heights, Chippewa–Hampton Area, or St. Louis Hills.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by JClark1

Sorry I havent been on in awhile, but thanks to everyone for the replies.

mjtinmemphis,

A little off subject, but in St. Louis county could I find the types of houses that are in East Memphis? Those nice houses around Poplar and Walnut Grove, in the Oak Court Mall area. We don't live in that area but my wife and I really love East Memphis with it's large, old houses, mature trees, and big enough yards right in the middle of an urban area. We prefer those kinds of neighborhoods to newer, cookie cutter neighborhoods.

Yes you can find a similar type community. Like the previous poster advised that Webster Groves and Kirkwood would be a good option for you.

Clayton/Brentwood/Richmond Heights (although more expensive) is like White Station/Poplar/I240 area on steriods. The area is well educated semi-urban and very affluent. Trendy restaraunts, excellent shopping (Galleria), many fine amenities like Straubs, Whole Foods, Mark Shale, Crate and Barrel and my favorite Trader Joes. I've heard that Nordstroms will be opening a location at the Galleria by 2010. Clayton Public Schools also offers one of the best learning experiences the area has as far as performance and diversity. If you are looking for the sophisticated lifestyle and willing to put up the cash, Clayton is the place.

University City seems to be more economically and racially diverse. There are some areas of U City that is really nice. Some are mediocre. Some are bad. UCity is known for the loop area. Its known for its boheiman flavor and good restaraunts. That can be a good thing or a bad depending upon what your looking for. However, it may be a little too liberal for your taste.

All of the areas mentioned offer excellent parks and are centrally located. with easy access to Metrolink light rail. You can't go wrong with either one.

[wesinmo]

I've lived in or near St. Louis my entire life(72 years)and never heard of such a thing. You'll find the usual racial stuff going on in the city but not the religious like you're talking about. If you're looking at living in the city you might want to check out the city school system if you have school age kids. Not good!! Also, we have the highway construction on I-64 ready to get underway so if you live out west of the city limits and have to commute into the city everyday, you're screwed. And this is only phase one and will take 2 years followed by?? So remember - location, location, location when it comes to St. Louis