So I was in STL for 4 days. Are my impressions correct?

[oscottscotto]

That's cool about the "Brick History".

At the risk of sounding uneducated, all of the brick just surprised me and made me feel strange at first. I only say that because the only houses in my home city built in red brick are usually in the hardcore run-down parts of town or in housing projects. Sorry to say I had to try my best to abandon that dubius subconscious connection when driving around STL.

[wkruse]

That's funny. After spending the last five years in Miami, one of the things I miss most is the architecture of home. I can't wait to get back to those beautiful red buildings with stone foundations and leave this stucco behind.

[Orwelleaut]

In response to what Dan1Dad was saying: In an ideal world, race or ethnicity would not matter, and each human being would be seen as unique in their own right, and not viewed with any preconceived notions by others before those others actually know them as an individual.

As nice as this would be, the aforesaid is simply not reality, and probably never will be. If we view this with as much objectivity as we can muster, we all will realize that each of us has stereotypical views of some group of people. Some of us have many stereotypical views of certain groups, and some of us not as many, but we all hold some stereotypes.

This being the case, we would serve ourselves well as humans to face the truth about why we hold our stereotypical views of certain groups. We hold them because, at some point in our lives, we have witnessed behaviors from members of a certain group that validate our stereotypes of that group. Let us remember that a stereotype is something which holds a "germ" of truth. Stereotypes are only bad because they do not fit all members of the groups they are applied to, and sometimes one becomes an innocent victim of someone else's stereotypical thoughts. Before rushing to judge the holder of a stereotype, though, let us remember that important part about the "germ" of truth that caused the stereotype to be formed in the first place. Few stereotypes are based on flights of fantasy. They are based on behaviors that members of a group have been known to engage in.

In terms of St. Louis, I suspect Dan1Dad was referring to the stereotype of young black males the most crime prone group in our society. Anyone who knows their criminal justice statistics knows that young black males are, according to crime stats at least, considerably more likely to commit a violent crime than any other racial or ethnic group in our country, and, as a result, is not surprised by the resulting stereotypes. While these stereotypes can be hurtful to the peaceful, law abiding young black male, and my heart goes out to the young black male who feels the sting of being wrongfully stereotyped, I feel equal compassion for the holder of the stereotype. As long as the holder of the stereotype is a peaceful citizen who holds stereotyped expectations regarding certain groups, they are probably just trying to make it through the day, and should not be judged as cruel or evil. Trying to make sense of our worlds is human nature, and "reading" others is one of the most complex components of human interaction.

Since most of us know the stereotypes we may fall victim to, I believe that being ready to prove a stereotype wrong, when it does not apply to us personally, is something all of us should be proud to do, and an opportunity we should all relish. If we are confident in who we are, and enjoy displaying with pride our lack of adherence to a stereotype that applies to us, we are not going to be bothered by stereotypes. If enough of us show this type of integrity, the holders of stereotypes will see a better reality, and the stereotypes will cease to exist.

[HCC]

Just to defend the West End a little...
I live in NY and truly miss the Central West End. The following links are what the CWE is to me:

Westmoreland and Portland places ... - Google Book Search

St. Louis Central West End pictures from missouri photos on webshots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Park_(St._Louis)

Yes, North of Delmar can be a little rough, but that isn't the CWE.

Good luck in your new position. Hope you take advantage of all the city has to offer, this is a good place to get ideas.

[davey123]

I no longer live in St. Louis. However, I would first like to say that I think that Stl has some of the most beautiful brick homes that I've ever seen.

I just want to follow-up on Orwelleaut's comment. It is true that we all do hold stereotypes. However, it is not necessarily true that all stereotypes originate from a "germ" of truth. In fact, it is almost seems like a case of: "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Some stereotypes originate from a grain (i.e., a germ) of truth. More specifically, a grain of truth about an individual (or small group) that is too often (and too easily) generalized to a much larger group. However, some stereotypes do not originate from any truth about an individual; rather, they are merely socially constructed. For instance, we can believe that an individual (or society can dictate that an individual) will behave a certain way. Thus, when we interact with that individual, we may interact with them in such a way as to elicit a behavioral confirmation. Oftentimes we believe that this behavioral confirmation is a confirmation that the stereotype was accurate. However, this may really just be a confirmation that our own actions can produce stereotypical behavior in others.

Keeping with this point, a famous person once said: "if you define a situation as real, then it is real in its consequences." Thus, if we expect a person to act a certain stereotypical way, then we will indeed see that behavior in that person. Clearly, the stereotype is real in our minds (i.e., our perceptions). But, does that really mean the stereotype is accurate, and originated from a "germ" of truth in general? It could be that stereotypes say more about the person stereotyping than the "group" being stereotyped.

Again, we all stereotype. And yes, St. Louis does have beautiful brick homes . However, it is important to understand that stereotypes can never be true about an entire group. If they were, then they would not be stereotypes; they would be facts. Stereotypes may be facts about a small subset of a larger group. Yet, we have to work really hard to make sure that we remain very, very cognizant of this reality. Orwelleaut expresses some sympathy for peaceful citizens who stereotype. However, some of the most peaceful citizens can harbor the most hate-filled racial stereotypes. We should never feel comfortable with that.

And yes, St. Louis still has some of the most beautiful brick homes that I've ever seen

[oscottscotto]

Evolution is funny. I just received a random rep for the original post in this thread - a post that I don't even remember making now. I sound so naive when I re-read it lol.

[ShadowCaver]

Originally Posted by oscottscotto

Evolution is funny. I just received a random rep for the original post in this thread - a post that I don't even remember making now. I sound so naive when I re-read it lol.

everyone is naive about everything when first coming out of the starting blocks... its what a person does to improve & educate themselves that is important. Anyhow, good post then, and it is to see the learning and transitions of peoples.

[sixtwobaldguy]

I;ve never had anything like what dan1dad describes happen. I've had some people yell racial insults directly at me though! Heck they didn't bother talking behind my back they were yelling at me and most recently at some town near granite city (I think just south of it) a group of people shouted racial insults and began throwing beer bottles at my car. I didn't even bother calling the police I just high tailed it out of there, the good news is they are stuck down there and I went back to my west county home to make love to my beautiful wife. Next time I am filling up before I leave Edwardsville lol (it really wasn't very scary because I was in my car and they were all standing infront of some building, didn't look like a bar really but must have been one but there was no way they could've gotten anywhere near me because my car is faster than any person) but it just proved to me that the extra money I spend to live in a good neighborhood is money well spent! It's not really a racial thing, it's an intelligence thing. I have neighbors of the same race who are nothing like that garbage.