Why is there such a prevalent STL vs KC attitude in MO (Kansas City: for sale, metro area)

[shindig]

I don't think there is much of a rivalry between St. Louis and Kansas City, maybe at the government level. I have lived in both cities and currently reside in KC. Of the two, I would have to say I prefer Kansas City. St. Louis to me is more insular and I found it more difficult to meet people. I like Kansas City's more laid back atmosphere and general friendliness of the people. Both cities are making great strides in revitalizing their downtowns and both seem to take it at a snails pace . Kansas City has poured billions of dollars into their downtown in the last decade and they are still losing corporate workers but is making great strides in adding new residents. St. Louis is going through the same fate with AT&T pulling all their workers out of downtown, but they to are adding residents. Neither city has a large corporate presence in their downtowns, even after investing billions of dollars. Kansas City recently lost AMC to the burbs in KS.

Both cities have a Cordish development downtown with Kansas City's being larger, but also not living up to its expectations. Cordish just recently broke ground on their first residential tower in downtown KC after completing the Power & Light district 6 years ago. Hopefully St. Louis doesn't have to wait that long. All in all, both great cities to call home.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

I think the fact that a lot of St. Louisans on here were unaware that there was a rivalry speaks volumes. It indicates that KC is not a big enough competing force to even take notice of it.

Originally Posted by lovekcmo

As much as St Louis likes looking down their nose at KC, they are more like KC's aging, dying older sister trying to hang on to her last bit of glory.

Now that's just silliness.

[Hunter2013]

I am glad somebody else mentioned the nonexistent STL-Chicago rivalry. I grew up in Chicago and never heard of such a thing until I met people from STL when I went to college in Champaign. They were all very anti-Chicago. Then I moved to STL and there was frequent talk of this rivalry on the news. I thought maybe times had changed and a rivalry had developed in Chicago after I left. However, my daughter recently moved to Chicago and confirmed the rivalry does not exist up there. When she mentions she is from STL, Chicagoans compliment the Cardinals. It sounds like STL has a big chip on its shoulder.

[kcmo]

Love both cities, but both are somewhat “has been” cities trying to stay relevant on a national level.

I don’t think there is much of a rivalry as I mentioned earlier this thread. I have lived in both and it seems like those most of the people that have something negative to say about the other city are generally totally clueless about the other city in the first place. Almost everybody I have ever known that are very familiar with both cities respects them both pretty equally.

For those that are clueless about the other city, It does seem that a lot of people in KC consider StL to be mostly ghetto and crime ridden, which is far from true. KC actually may have more overall crime and blight problems than StL across the city and metro. Then you have the clueless StL people that try to ignore KC like StL is too good to be mentioned in the same sentence as KC. That too is extremely ignorant. The two cities are just not that far apart and on a national scale, they nearly peers. StL people ignore KC, but then try to act like Chicago cares about them. StL is MUCH closer to KC than Chicago. Let it go, it's not the 1800's anymore.

I still find it silly to be a life long (or even multi year) resident of one metro and not seek out and explore the other metro once or twice a year. They both have a lot to offer. I can somewhat understand StL residents being less familiar with KC because StL has so many other options within the same driving distance. But still.

Both cities have very slow growth urban cores and both cities have lost a ton of urban residents. KCMO has lost just as many percentage wise as StL city. Both downtowns are seeing very slow growth. I mean KC is all excited about one 25 story tower and a mile long streetcar line. That’s great for KC, but the development KC sees is not really where it should be right now. It’s seeing urban core development of a much smaller metro. Same with StL. Both cities despite having a lot downtown (KC with arena, arts center, p&L district and StL with arch, three pro sports venues and light rail) have seen almost no private investment over the past 10-20 years. Both cities are still getting killed by suburban sprawl while their central cities are sort of limping along compared to many large cities today, doing just enough to keep people interested, but nowhere near enough to really compete. If people have a choice between KC/StL and Denver/MSP/Boston/Seattle and even many smaller cities like Austin, Charlotte etc, I think KC/StL will generally only attract those looking for that slower pace and lower COL more suburban lifestyle that StL/KC emphasize.

Personally, I still think both are underrated. Both are MUCH nicer and offer a LOT more than 99% of the country knows. But I wouldn't choose to move back to either. StL has some decent city neighborhoods, but downtown StL is still just so dead unless around the stadiums during games most of the time compared to similar sized cities across the country. In KC and StL you are still very much in the minority if you prefer urban living.

In KC I can’t stand all the blight and state line issues and super slow progress on anything. I have been away from KC for several years now and I can still easily name every project in the city, most are the same projects as when I left. There are not many outside the burbs. Try to keep up with just the larger projects in a city like Denver, Seattle or San Diego, it’s nearly impossible. And forget about places like DC where there are always 25-40 tower cranes up. I just prefer a larger more vibrant and faster growing urban core. A bit more bustle. Not a city where everybody drives to 135th Street or Village West for entertainment.

Maybe it’s time KC and StL do come together. They both struggle with many of the same problems.

[glamatomic]

From an international perspective (remember, I'm a transplant from Australia and I've lived in the U.K as well)... Can I just add that in spite of what the good people of KC may think about St. Louis, St. Louis has a LOT more name recognition internationally than Kansas City does.

Usually, foreigners still won't know what either city is all about, but they've usually heard of St. Louis (be it because of the Julie Garland movie, Charles Lindbergh's plane, or whatever).

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by Hunter2013

I am glad somebody else mentioned the nonexistent STL-Chicago rivalry. I grew up in Chicago and never heard of such a thing until I met people from STL when I went to college in Champaign. They were all very anti-Chicago. Then I moved to STL and there was frequent talk of this rivalry on the news. I thought maybe times had changed and a rivalry had developed in Chicago after I left. However, my daughter recently moved to Chicago and confirmed the rivalry does not exist up there. When she mentions she is from STL, Chicagoans compliment the Cardinals. It sounds like STL has a big chip on its shoulder.

I don't think there is a Chicago St. Louis rivalry per se, except sometimes in sports, because Chicago simply put is a world class city and we are not, but I do feel like St. Louis looks rather longingly at Chicago and thinks "what might have been." Personally, I prefer living in St. Louis for the relative ease of living but Chicago is probably my favorite city to visit.

I know when I graduated from Mizzou 24 years ago (old I know) Chicago seemed to be the number one most popular destination to start out. Very few of those folks still live there though.

[billiken]

Call me Denver resident #1 who can't wait to get the heck out and back to STL. And yes, I live in the city of Denver, and I'm moving to the City of St Louis. No, I am not from STL. I work with a lot of people under 30, and the majority live in the suburbs...even in Denver.

[shindig]

Originally Posted by billiken

Call me Denver resident #1 who can't wait to get the heck out and back to STL. And yes, I live in the city of Denver, and I'm moving to the City of St Louis. No, I am not from STL. I work with a lot of people under 30, and the majority live in the suburbs...even in Denver.

Curious as to why you don't like Denver? Too many donk fans?

[billiken]

Originally Posted by shindig

Curious as to why you don't like Denver? Too many donk fans?

I think it's extremely overpriced. I can see why people who enjoy the outdoors like it, but I'm not really one of those people. Nice place to visit, over-rated as a place to live. Real estate in my current neighborhood averages something like $330/sqft (I like the neighborhood, but not for that price). I just bought a completely renovated house in STL for $130/sqft. My lifestyle will improve. In both places, I'd ride the bus to my office if I wanted to take public transit, but more than likely drive. In both places, I can walk to bars/restaurants. In both places, I'm walking distance to the "main" city park. In STL, I'll be very close to main highways, which is important for my job. In Denver, I'm sitting in traffic constantly. In Denver, the prices basically ensure there is very little economic diversity in my neighborhood. In STL, I'll live somewhere with a pretty wide variety of people, which I like. In Denver, there aren't many cities within driving distance, so it feels pretty isolated. In STL, I take a lot of weekend trips to a variety of cities.

Basically, if I wanted a house within my budget in Denver, I'd have to commute somewhere around 50 miles/day, and live in a really generic suburb, which is not at all what I want. I think STL has more interesting suburbs, too. Denver has a better downtown, which is nice, but in the end doesn't make much difference to me because I'm much more neighborhood focused and frankly, I'm too old and boring to be living among 20 year olds (been there, done that).

And that's about it. Sorry, I didn't mean to completely change the subject, so I'm done.

[glamatomic]

billiken: Even as a non-native St. Louisan I couldn't wait to get back to St. Louis either, after almost 5 years away. Even though I was living in North Carolina which largely seems to be considered the land of milk and honey for people wanting to relocate, it wasn't a patch on my beloved St. Louis.

As for the Chicago- St. Louis rivalry, I think it only exists in sports. A rivalry may have existed like, in the 1800s when both cities were first beginning to boom, but I don't think the mentality is there anymore (except in Cards vs Cubs, etc).