Racism in St. Louis (Charleston, Amsterdam: scorpion, college, move to)

[tj7run]

I came upon this post and it amazed me. I am from Oregon, but my mothers family has lived in Missouri (St. Louis) for generations. The last time I visited St. Louis I was blown away, by my own relatives. Their comments about other races completely upset me. Living in Oregon, especially the Portland area, you just do not find as much racism. People are more accepting, we are truly a melting pot. I am so sorry for anyone who has experienced this type of behavior. We all deserve to live our lives as we choose with out the fear of others prosecuting us because of our race. Thank God my children were not raised as my relatives were in St. Louis, I can't say the same for everyone in Oregon, but for the most part it's a pretty friendly State.

[jojojohnson76]

tj7run, it depends on who raised you, not where you are from.

The po-dunk town I am from in southern Illinois is a city of 7,000 and is number 34 on the "least racially diverse" cities on city-data.com, and I am not a racist, because I wasn't raised to be a racist. Out of 7,000, probably at least half use the "n word" on regular occasion.

[chitownwarrior]

Originally Posted by Jay33

Help me Out somebody.

Hey there Jay. Read some of my posts and find my relation to the old Lou.

Anyway, I hope I can help you out. First of all, no offense to others on this forum, but I can understand why you said "help me out somebody". City-Data isn't the best forum to get the intellectual feedback you're looking for. ShadowCaver and FishTacos and others usually provide some intelligent insight...[MOD CUT]

Also, I completely understand about people "giving advice" on a city they've never lived in, like stlcards. Nothing gets me more is people living in the burbs of chicago trying to explain what life in Chicago (the city) is like. You just can't unless you live in the city or spend enormous amounts of time in it.

Secondly, I understand where you're tension is coming from. I bet the incident with the idiot cop has also stirred some of your frustrations. That prick should be fired. Cops in st. louis county and surrounding areas BLOW. I think that's a fact. But to get a sigh of relief, check out the youtube videos of the kid that busted one of them. There's a long way to go to fix the parochial police force.

[MOD CUT] There's definately an old regime in charge of the city, and there's a strong urban force in st. louis ready to get rid of the regime and old-school thinking. There IS a fight going on in the city about this.

However, I feel many of your frustrations are biased and scewed, as if you think your upbringing in Ohio has put you on a superior level (you stated st. louis would never be a "major city" like COLUMBUS...hmmmm.... don't know about that one. Also, Europe is not a country. Your travels do give you a good perspective, but also know that they aren't as extensive as you'd think. There are many that have seen a LOT more than you, me being one of them. (most of europe - lived in parts- most of eastern asia, most of south america, all states except montana, and dakotas, etc.). With that, I find St. Louis to be a treasure, and i'm ethnic as well.

Whenever i spend lots of time in st. louis, I can parallel with some of the frustrations you witness, but I must tell you that those frustrations are almost everywhere in the US...if you want a glimpse of that here in chicago, hang out in south chicago...or other areas segregated. I think a lot of your frustrations have to do with you being half and half, where you personally are a lot more sensitive about racial divide.

I think you're right about st. louis though -- the horrible stupid idiodic divide between the areas of the cities, and also the old school regime (that's the way we always done it) thinking of government and bureacrats...most of who are afraid of change. (why should that way of thinking still be in charge since the time that model has been incorporated the city lost half its population over 5 decades...freaking morons.) St. louis should follow chicago's government model, aka Daley.

But as a whole too, it depends on who you associate with and where you go. The waitress story could be racial or it couldn't, you don't know. It also could be your over sensitivity.

My interest in st. louis began when i discovered its unique character, one of historic glam and prestige...then suddenly fell victim to racial divide and sprawl out of thin air. And its gov't trying in vain (and blindly) to revive it. St. Louis isn't on the par with columbus or an Indianapolis...it deserves so much more than those cities due to what its makeup, history, and culture. Its not a modern city. But i watch it closely with my fingers crossed that it will soon turn the tides. The people of st. louis NEED to wake up, or that glam and prestige will eventually dissappear, and they will miss the opportunity for being a better city. Why divide? Why not risk huge investments? Why a county vs a city? Why oppress the blacks to the north? And why continue the racial tensions?

[WestCoDude]

Originally Posted by bburg

I lived in Chesterfield and my family still lives in the Ladue area. I never encountered any racism in those areas. Move there. Plus the St. Louis City is dirty and pretty much sucks.

Hehe. I concur (with much reservation for the wrath that is sure to follow).

[WestCoDude]

I have to say, though, that I have seen a lot of discrimination go on in this city. The white people try to keep the black people outta sight, outta mind. And the black people are stuck back in the 1950s. They haven't learned that nobody cares about their pathetic identity politics and their constant use of the race card. Race is a big issue in St. Louis--and the only reason I can find for that is because so many people are still hung up on the issue. Too many whites still harbor suspicions against blacks and too many blacks are too busy fightin' the White Man to go get a job and support their 20 illegitimate kids.

And the reason you don't see it as much in Chesterfield is that we don't really have any exposure to blacks. It's pretty homogenous so nobody has any reason to care about race politics. Unfortunately, I don't know how you solve this issue without getting into politically muddy water. Just look what happened after Mayor Slay fired the black fire chief. I mean....what do you do without getting kicked out of office?

I guess the main solution is to just bring more jobs to the area and help it grow economically so that everybody has financial opportunity. That's not the solution....but it's a step forward.

And, let's be honest, it's not THAT bad. I've never experienced racism directly here by whites or blacks and I think it's often over-stated. That doesn't mean there's not a problem...but it isn't quite the monster people seem to think it is.

[kat750]

Instead of all the PC/im not a racist disclaimer crap, here is what i think. Black people are by far the most racist people in the country. Wait let me restate that, poor black area keep the most racist. But yeah poor black area are the most racist in the country. So by that logic, black people are indeed the most racist

Except for in LA where black folks are getting run off from mexicans.They hate each other equally but they are just outnumbered Thats the only exception so dont throw it out as some anecdotal proof its not true.

When will it swing back around and how ugly will it get? i dont know.

[kat750]

Originally Posted by WestCoDude

I have to say, though, that I have seen a lot of discrimination go on in this city. The white people try to keep the black people outta sight, outta mind. And the black people are stuck back in the 1950s. They haven't learned that nobody cares about their pathetic identity politics and their constant use of the race card. Race is a big issue in St. Louis--and the only reason I can find for that is because so many people are still hung up on the issue. Too many whites still harbor suspicions against blacks and too many blacks are too busy fightin' the White Man to go get a job and support their 20 illegitimate kids.

And the reason you don't see it as much in Chesterfield is that we don't really have any exposure to blacks. It's pretty homogenous so nobody has any reason to care about race politics. Unfortunately, I don't know how you solve this issue without getting into politically muddy water. Just look what happened after Mayor Slay fired the black fire chief. I mean....what do you do without getting kicked out of office?

I guess the main solution is to just bring more jobs to the area and help it grow economically so that everybody has financial opportunity. That's not the solution....but it's a step forward.

And, let's be honest, it's not THAT bad. I've never experienced racism directly here by whites or blacks and I think it's often over-stated. That doesn't mean there's not a problem...but it isn't quite the monster people seem to think it is.

The democrats are destroying the black community and have been for 40 years. Making them the victim and so unsure of themselves they never even have a chance to get started.

[WestCoDude]

Originally Posted by kat750

The democrats are destroying the black community and have been for 40 years. Making them the victim and so unsure of themselves they never even have a chance to get started.

Yeah....I dunno about that. I'm as Republican as they come, but I'm hesitant to lay blame over a single political party. I mean...I don't give the Democrats enough credit to assume that they can completely demolish a minority group like that. I just think that's mostly rhetoric.

I will, however, put a lot of blame on the left, more generally. I think blacks and the Democrats have bought into the identity politics of the left and it has left the black community in shambles. I think Juan Williams--a partisan, liberal Democrat--has put it very cogently in his book on the issue. He calls for the black community to stop looking for welfare and stop laying blame on the White Man's doorstep, and start educating themselves so that they can develop dynamic, smart solutions to community problems like gangs, crime, and drugs. And he says what too few blacks are willing to admit--the family structure in the black community is just not conducive to academic or economic success. Unless black fathers grow a pair and take responsibility for their behavior, no solution will suffice.

The race issues in St. Louis are no different from the race issues elsewhere. I've heard some on here blame Missouri for being a slave state....but I think that's petty and way off base. That really has nothing to do with it--and is mostlly a cover for the REAL issues facing the community--drugs, gangs, education, and illegitimacy. When you start tackling those issues, the poverty issue will follow suit.

Does racism still play a part in the problem? Absolutely. As much here in St. Louis as in other areas. But black people cannot blame their woes on racism or government action or inaction--it must learn to target real issues and develop solutions specific to each community.

[Charleston Class]

Originally Posted by kat750

Instead of all the PC/im not a racist disclaimer crap, here is what i think. Black people are by far the most racist people in the country. Wait let me restate that, poor black area keep the most racist. But yeah poor black area are the most racist in the country. So by that logic, black people are indeed the most racist

Except for in LA where black folks are getting run off from mexicans.They hate each other equally but they are just outnumbered Thats the only exception so dont throw it out as some anecdotal proof its not true.

When will it swing back around and how ugly will it get? i dont know.

Okay, so let's start with the obvious: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and clearly this was yours. I get that. However, I think you are reaching by saying poor African Americans are the most racist. I think poorer African Americans are the most AGGRESSIVE AND FRUSTRATED, but discriminatory not so much. Racist against whom, anyone that isn't Black or anyone that is middle class? In my experience most African Americans-myself included of course- tend to keep to themselves and greatly appreciate when others do the same. So using your rationale, the most racist and poor white person in Alabama that hates African Americans and other minorities speaks for the more refined, open-minded Caucasian in Seattle,WA that couldn't care less if a person were black or purple? I'm certain they would object to this assertion. I won't even say which group I think is most racist, as such a statement would be unqualified, as I haven't met all ethnic groups that exist.

[jojojohnson76]

Originally Posted by WestCoDude

The white people try to keep the black people outta sight, outta mind.

Right, and those people move to Chesterfi....oh...oops