Southern or Midwestern? (St. Louis, Chesterfield, Lancaster: house, neighborhoods, living in)

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Well, almost, but I see your point!

Nashville: 36°10′00″N
Louisville: 38°15′15″N
St. Louis: 38°38′53″N
Cincinnati: 39°8′10″N
Philadelphia: 39°57′12″N
Pittsburgh: 40°26′30″N
New York City: 40°43′N

Not only in terms of latitude but as well as culture. St. Louis and Cincinnati have both are Midwestern in culture and attitude, as well as climates. Louisville and Nashville by contrast are more Southern in culture and climate. Both see very little snow normally in the winter, whereas St. Louis and Cincinnati see respectable amounts generally. A good example...this winter St. Louis and Cincy have received between 5-10 inches of snow already. Louisville has seen barely even 2, Nashville not even 1. This is not a far from uncommon pattern. Plus, it can get much colder in the winter for St. Louis and Cincy, compared to Louisville and Nashville. The Ohio River is actually a pretty decent divider of climates.

[LancasterNative]

Originally Posted by ajf131

I disagree about it having very much in common with Louisville. Louisville's culture is Southern and it has a much more Southern feel to it than any of the other three cities mentioned, plus it is much smaller than St. Louis, Cincy, or Pittsburgh. St. Louis and Cincinnati are the most similar to one another because they are at virtually the same latitudes, have basically the same weather year round, and both are Midwestern in culture. That is why St. Louis' closest twin is likely Cincinnati. Also, Kansas City is probably St. Louis' next closest twin. It definitely has the most in common with the Midwest anyway the deck is stacked. Pittsburgh I would have to agree though is next in line for the cities with the most similarities to St. Louis, followed by Indianapolis, Columbus, and then further on Cleveland and Detroit and Milwaukee. In fact, Pittsburgh I think is more of a Midwestern city than a Northeastern one. There is no question that it shares more commonalities with Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Columbus than Philadelphia or Baltimore.

Yep, I see we're agreed on the fact Cincinnati is clearly St. Louis' closest twin. I doubt there are many who'd seriously dispute that. Even their old and new ballparks were/are similar—although in my mind & heart no other diamond will ever hold a candle to Busch. Go Cardinals!!!

But yeah... I dunno, Louisville seems to me alot more similar to St. L. than Pittsburgh does. I think it has to do with the ethnic mix (heavily German/English/Scots-Irish) as opposed to Pittsburgh's heavy settlement during the later Eastern/Southern European wave. But there again, St. Louis did pick up quite a few Irish & Italians, too...

Another similarity/set of connection exists IMO between St. Louis and its downriver cousins, Memphis and even New Orleans. Can anyone say..."Blues"?!? Or for that matter... "rock'n'roll", pioneered in Memphis in large part by St. Louis' own Chuck Berry. St. Louis also shares that whole French-origin thingie with NOLA.

Since you brought up Baltimore, one striking political commonality there: both Baltimore & St. Louis are municipal entities independent of any county!

I'm not sure how Baltimore got that way, but in St. L. it goes back to the 1870s, when hoity-toity city leaders shot themselves in the foot, big-time. Not wanting to provide shared (county) services to all those "poor, dumb hillbillies" in the county, they cut the county loose and let them fend for themselves. Everything was hunky-dory for about eight decades—then one day the City fathers woke up and realized all the wealthy suburbanites (i.e. the prime tax base) now lived beyond their reach...in the county! Ha ha

[panacasummit]

Start driving south bound on I-55 from St. Louis. Stop every few miles and visit with the locals. Somewhere south of Scott City, you will cross a diversion canal affectionately known to the locals as the stupid ditch. As you continue driving and continue talking you will realize there are distinct difference between St. Louis, and The South. St. Louis definitely gets my vote for Midwest if those are the only two choices.

[ShadowCaver]

St Louis, a midwestern community with southern flavour, given a good dose of ethnic diversity.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by LancasterNative

Yep, I see we're agreed on the fact Cincinnati is clearly St. Louis' closest twin. I doubt there are many who'd seriously dispute that. Even their old and new ballparks were/are similar—although in my mind & heart no other diamond will ever hold a candle to Busch. Go Cardinals!!!

But yeah... I dunno, Louisville seems to me alot more similar to St. L. than Pittsburgh does. I think it has to do with the ethnic mix (heavily German/English/Scots-Irish) as opposed to Pittsburgh's heavy settlement during the later Eastern/Southern European wave. But there again, St. Louis did pick up quite a few Irish & Italians, too...

Another similarity/set of connection exists IMO between St. Louis and its downriver cousins, Memphis and even New Orleans. Can anyone say..."Blues"?!? Or for that matter... "rock'n'roll", pioneered in Memphis in large part by St. Louis' own Chuck Berry. St. Louis also shares that whole French-origin thingie with NOLA.

Since you brought up Baltimore, one striking political commonality there: both Baltimore & St. Louis are municipal entities independent of any county!

I'm not sure how Baltimore got that way, but in St. L. it goes back to the 1870s, when hoity-toity city leaders shot themselves in the foot, big-time. Not wanting to provide shared (county) services to all those "poor, dumb hillbillies" in the county, they cut the county loose and let them fend for themselves. Everything was hunky-dory for about eight decades—then one day the City fathers woke up and realized all the wealthy suburbanites (i.e. the prime tax base) now lived beyond their reach...in the county! Ha ha

Good point about the Blues, but the Twin Cities also have a bit of a French flavor, and the blues were brought to St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit from places like New ORleans and Memphis. The only similar thing I've noticed between St. Louis and Louisville are their being river cities, and that's not a huge similarity IMO. Drive on I-64 from Louisville to St. Louis sometime...it is like leaving one world and entering a completely different one. Another thing to note...I grew up in St. Louis County, there are NO hillbillies around here The reason the county seceded was because it was relatively unpopulated land and the city figured it would stay that way forever: big mistake hehe. Chuck Berry is Chuck Berry...if rock makes a city Southern, I guess Cleveland is Southern too hehehe. Bottomline...St. Louis is a Midwestern city with a few Southern characteristics. It's industry, dialect, attitude, architecture, and demographic makeup are all distinctly Midwestern. St. Louis may be a Midwestern city with some Southern characteristics but it is NOT a Southern city. Also have to agree about that diversion canal argument. Missouri I think is also the same thing as St. Louis..a mostly Midwestern state with Southern characteristics and the part of the state in between Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Arkansas and Tennessee being Southern.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by panacasummit

Start driving south bound on I-55 from St. Louis. Stop every few miles and visit with the locals. Somewhere south of Scott City, you will cross a diversion canal affectionately known to the locals as the stupid ditch. As you continue driving and continue talking you will realize there are distinct difference between St. Louis, and The South. St. Louis definitely gets my vote for Midwest if those are the only two choices.

Dead on. DEAD ON. that was exactly my experiencing driving on Interstate 55 too. South of Scott City, the people become almost unrecognizable to me....a heavy Southern accent, strong Southern culture, UNQUESTIONABLY Southern. I never crossed such a diversion canal, by contrast, driving from St. Louis to Joplin.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by panacasummit

Start driving south bound on I-55 from St. Louis. Stop every few miles and visit with the locals. Somewhere south of Scott City, you will cross a diversion canal affectionately known to the locals as the stupid ditch. As you continue driving and continue talking you will realize there are distinct difference between St. Louis, and The South. St. Louis definitely gets my vote for Midwest if those are the only two choices.

Originally Posted by ajf131

Dead on. DEAD ON. that was exactly my experiencing driving on Interstate 55 too. South of Scott City, the people become almost unrecognizable to me....a heavy Southern accent, strong Southern culture, UNQUESTIONABLY Southern. I never crossed such a diversion canal, by contrast, driving from St. Louis to Joplin.

LOL, its actually as soon as you get to the flats on I-55..... that whole area was my stomping grounds when I was young, trust me on this!

[GraniteStater]

Kansas City usually has colder winter temperatures than St. Louis does. For example, the last few days have brought below zero temperatures for Kansas City but not St. Louis. What is notable about the temperatures in KC is that they are measured at the KCI airport which is downwind from a huge coal plant that they are expanding. The KCI temperature sensor should not even count as the official recording spot because of all the urban development, sprawl, and power plants they have built in Platte County. When the airport was first built the temperature sensor was located in an almost completely rural area with little urban development at all. Now, that area has much more of an urban heat island compared with 30 years ago.

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Good point about the Blues, but the Twin Cities also have a bit of a French flavor, and the blues were brought to St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit from places like New ORleans and Memphis. The only similar thing I've noticed between St. Louis and Louisville are their being river cities, and that's not a huge similarity IMO. Drive on I-64 from Louisville to St. Louis sometime...it is like leaving one world and entering a completely different one. Another thing to note...I grew up in St. Louis County, there are NO hillbillies around here The reason the county seceded was because it was relatively unpopulated land and the city figured it would stay that way forever: big mistake hehe. Chuck Berry is Chuck Berry...if rock makes a city Southern, I guess Cleveland is Southern too hehehe. Bottomline...St. Louis is a Midwestern city with a few Southern characteristics. It's industry, dialect, attitude, architecture, and demographic makeup are all distinctly Midwestern. St. Louis may be a Midwestern city with some Southern characteristics but it is NOT a Southern city. Also have to agree about that diversion canal argument. Missouri I think is also the same thing as St. Louis..a mostly Midwestern state with Southern characteristics and the part of the state in between Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Arkansas and Tennessee being Southern.

There are plenty of rednecks in Missouri. Locals refer to them as Hoosiers. STL has many rednecks outside the city, just like Louisville. The two cities are very similar river cities and have a similar catholic German-Irish culture, eclectic historic areas, and wonderful architecture. You must know that STL has always been larger than Louisville, and even historically STL was a top five city and Louisville was top 15 in population. The main difference between the two cities is sheer size:STL has twice the suburbs and thus twice the metro area. Other than that I find them very similar in culture and vibe.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by stx12499

There are plenty of rednecks in Missouri. Locals refer to them as Hoosiers. STL has many rednecks outside the city, just like Louisville. The two cities are very similar river cities and have a similar catholic German-Irish culture, eclectic historic areas, and wonderful architecture. You must know that STL has always been larger than Louisville, and even historically STL was a top five city and Louisville was top 15 in population. The main difference between the two cities is sheer size:STL has twice the suburbs and thus twice the metro area. Other than that I find them very similar in culture and vibe.

Having lived in both cities, I have to say.... I dunno about that. The river thing, yes! But the German-Irish Catholic culture? Being a 6th generation STL German Catholic, I never saw anything in Louisville like what we have in STL, and I looked, I was homesick!
Historic areas are a bit similar, with Louisvilles being much smaller, of course, but still nice.
The one thing Louisville had it all over STL on, is, of course, the Derby. Louisville has pretty much ignored its riverfront until recently, the Belevedere was meant to bring folks down there, but I always felt it cut one off from the river.
Just my observations, of course, but just dont see a whole lot of comparisons.