What is really wrong with St. Louis? (Miller: low crime, construction)

[goat314]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I am also intrigued by the racial tension theories.

I agree racism is everywhere. I don't see where my life here as a Black male is anymore plagued by racism then what I've seen and experienced in other places. I think some places are easier to digest while others are not.

When people make up issues like the city is trashed and use code words like thug as if the presence of Black people bother them, maybe St. Louis isn't for them. But don't create a scene that doesn't exists.

They also ignore that St. Louis has a fairly large black middle class for a metro it's size and I believe it's a top 5 city for black entrepreneurship.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

I think St. Louis made its biggest mistake when they allowed the city to become completely surrounded by suburbs with no room for it to grow. Being surrounded by suburbs put a real stranglehold on the city of St Louis. In the long run, the suburbs stunted the growth of St Louis. Now St Louis is closer to the population of Ft Wayne, Indiana than it is to Kansas City, when it should be closer to the population of Indianapolis, Nashville, Jacksonville, Austin, Charlotte, and Kansas City.

Same thing happened to other Midwest peer cities, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati. The city leaders allowed their city to become completely surrounded by suburbs.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

I think St. Louis made its biggest mistake when they allowed the city to become completely surrounded by suburbs with no room for it to grow. Being surrounded by suburbs put a real stranglehold on the city of St Louis. In the long run, the suburbs stunted the growth of St Louis. Now St Louis is closer to the population of Ft Wayne, Indiana than it is to Kansas City, when it should be closer to the population of Indianapolis, Nashville, Jacksonville, Austin, Charlotte, and Kansas City.

Same thing happened to other Midwest peer cities, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati. The city leaders allowed their city to become completely surrounded by suburbs.

Ivory, they didn't just "allow" it, they actually forced it to happen. I will need help here since I do not know all the neighborhood names but there is a one- or two- street neighborhood just outside the city of St Louis with some of the most beautiful mansions I every saw. A friend once drove me through it. Exclusive. The friend's book on the history of this area says it was established by the city fathers of St Louis because, while they liked being rulers of the city, they would not want to live there. Their businesses that were making them rich while polluting and downgrading the city, sent them scurrying for the start of suburbs.

As noted, having been new to the area I am not sure exactly where I was when shown this exclusive neighborhood. Is it still outside the city or now inside? I wonder if it is on the Historic Preservation list. It certainly is being preserved and looked to me as if it would still take a lot of money to live there.

In other words, St Louis City was being abandoned by its leaders long ago. Not just by the young and educated but by its own leaders who were getting rich off it.

[glamatomic]

Ivory: When the powers that be legally separated St. Louis City from St. Louis County, the County was almost entirely farmland with a few small towns (such as Florissant, Kirkwood, etc). In 1876, I don't think they could have fathomed the swift growth of transportation technology which allowed people to live further away from work, or the home building technology which would allow millions of young families across the country to trade apartments for affordable SFH's.

St. Louis City didn't allow the growth of the suburbs per se, but they had no choice due to the 'divorce' with the county. The City had no say, and the County had it's own best interests at heart which meant population growth. Suburban sprawl was certainly not invented here, but like many cities worldwide, the suburbs and idea of them tempted young families both post-War and today.

I guess you could say it's a story of supply and demand? I certainly lament how unpopulated the City is today, but as I stated, after the separation, the City had no say in the matter.

[glamatomic]

Hazel- was it De Mun? That neighborhood encompasses both part of Clayton and St. Louis.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

Hazel- was it De Mun? That neighborhood encompasses both part of Clayton and St. Louis.

That doesn't sound familiar but could be. I was too new here at the time to remember everything I was being shown. I will drop a line to my friend and ask her. She knows this county like the back of her hand, despite being an "implant". :-)

Thank you for the additional information that you posted. All very true. Definitely almost all farmland out in the county. During that period, I drove from Kansas City to Indianapolis, bypassing St Louis and crossing Chain of Rocks bridge. Can't do any of that today.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

Hazel- was it De Mun? That neighborhood encompasses both part of Clayton and St. Louis.

Answer from the friend who drove me around there. This is it as I now remember.

"Believe you are referring to homes off Portland Place and Westmoreland. They are a part of the CWE or Forest Park. They are just north of the park and East of Washington U. West too of Kingshighway and the Chase Park Plaza.May just be considered a part of St. Louis city."

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by Hazel W

Answer from the friend who drove me around there. This is it as I now remember.

"Believe you are referring to homes off Portland Place and Westmoreland. They are a part of the CWE or Forest Park. They are just north of the park and East of Washington U. West too of Kingshighway and the Chase Park Plaza.May just be considered a part of St. Louis city."

The area surrounding Forest Park and where the Chase is are in the City... and by far some of the most beautiful areas! The architecture ♡♡♡♡

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

The area surrounding Forest Park and where the Chase is are in the City... and by far some of the most beautiful areas! The architecture ♡♡♡♡

Right. It's the architecture that captivated me. A few have had add-ons or alterations and you can tell immediately. As a rule those are not improvements. But most make a wonderful study in art and architecture.

[Metal To The Core]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

I think St. Louis made its biggest mistake when they allowed the city to become completely surrounded by suburbs with no room for it to grow. Being surrounded by suburbs put a real stranglehold on the city of St Louis. In the long run, the suburbs stunted the growth of St Louis. Now St Louis is closer to the population of Ft Wayne, Indiana than it is to Kansas City, when it should be closer to the population of Indianapolis, Nashville, Jacksonville, Austin, Charlotte, and Kansas City.

Same thing happened to other Midwest peer cities, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati. The city leaders allowed their city to become completely surrounded by suburbs.

I hear you on this one. St. Louis city residents will always have some reason to go to the suburbs, whereas in a larger city you might have everything you need without stepping outside of the city limits for six months or maybe longer. West County has a lot of jobs and certain grocery stores you can't find in the city. Hell, there are quite a few attractions outside of the city limits like The Magic House, Hollywood Casino Amphitheater, the east side strip clubs, etc.