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Old 02-13-2008, 08:30 PM
 
1 posts, read 6,601 times
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My friend and I are considering doing a rehab project out of state. He was given a lead in castle point and neither of us have a clue what the area is like. Based on the sales price of this small home I can't imagine its great, but is it ok? Any help is greatly appreciated as wd don't want to make another mistake as we did in Detroit.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,823 posts, read 11,741,942 times
Reputation: 3183
I've honestly never heard of it, but I don't live in the city. Most of the rough areas (as far as crime) are typically on the North side and the Illinois side, although the North Side is getting better. There's a group working solely on restoring the Old North.
Old North Saint Louis (http://www.onsl.org/restorationgroup.php - broken link)
What's New in Old North

Here's a listing of a house in Castle Point House For Sale - Home in Castle Point, St. Louis, Missouri $52,000 in Castle Point, MO - HotPads.com (http://hotpads.com/search/viewListing.htm?listingId=1104558_Point2 - broken link)

You can't tell much about the neighborhood just from the photos, though.

According to this Bebo profile (some adult language)
Bass Offical Profile <bass314102>
Quote:
He grew up with an hustlaz ambition. For producin/rappin
at an young age.He grew up in"Castle point"St.Louis.
An harsh environment with alot of criminal activity.
Here's the city-data page Castle Point, Missouri (MO) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news

It looks like a rough place. There are lots of renovations going in North St. Louis, so it may eventually turn around like Soulard and Lafayette Square did, but I emphasize eventually.

But I have no experience there, so I can't tell you for sure. There is some revitalization going on in North St. Louis, but mostly in the areas kind of bordering downtown St. Louis. It may work its way north, but it could take a while.

It's up to you, but I wouldn't expect the property to sell for much or quickly. The Old North will probably eventually turn around, but I'm not sure I'd risk it.

Here's a wikimapia view Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!
According to this and city-data, population density is high, and there are a lot of buildings here, which is good. So, just by that I'd say it's doing better than a lot of North St. Louis (a lot of North St. Louis is empty lots and decaying buildings).

Try asking on Urban St. Louis - Index as well. They could probably help more than I could.

Looking at it just from satellite images, it looks like it's not too bad of a place to live, nice density (although very suburban in its looks) and right next to a good sized park. Living there may be alright. Selling, I'm not so sure. The North Side (although this is outside the city limits) has a reputation. There's a Junior High School, a High School, and a Community College nearby.

So, you could certainly do worse.

Last edited by STLCardsBlues1989; 02-14-2008 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:10 AM
 
85 posts, read 232,833 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
I've honestly never heard of it, but I don't live in the city. Most of the rough areas (as far as crime) are typically on the North side and the Illinois side, although the North Side is getting better. There's a group working solely on restoring the Old North.
Old North Saint Louis (http://www.onsl.org/restorationgroup.php - broken link)
What's New in Old North

Here's a listing of a house in Castle Point House For Sale - Home in Castle Point, St. Louis, Missouri $52,000 in Castle Point, MO - HotPads.com (http://hotpads.com/search/viewListing.htm?listingId=1104558_Point2 - broken link)

You can't tell much about the neighborhood just from the photos, though.

According to this Bebo profile (some adult language)
Bass Offical Profile <bass314102>


Here's the city-data page Castle Point, Missouri (MO) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news

It looks like a rough place. There are lots of renovations going in North St. Louis, so it may eventually turn around like Soulard and Lafayette Square did, but I emphasize eventually.

But I have no experience there, so I can't tell you for sure. There is some revitalization going on in North St. Louis, but mostly in the areas kind of bordering downtown St. Louis. It may work its way north, but it could take a while.

It's up to you, but I wouldn't expect the property to sell for much or quickly. The Old North will probably eventually turn around, but I'm not sure I'd risk it.

Here's a wikimapia view Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!
According to this and city-data, population density is high, and there are a lot of buildings here, which is good. So, just by that I'd say it's doing better than a lot of North St. Louis (a lot of North St. Louis is empty lots and decaying buildings).

Try asking on Urban St. Louis - Index as well. They could probably help more than I could.

Looking at it just from satellite images, it looks like it's not too bad of a place to live, nice density (although very suburban in its looks) and right next to a good sized park. Living there may be alright. Selling, I'm not so sure. The North Side (although this is outside the city limits) has a reputation. There's a Junior High School, a High School, and a Community College nearby.

So, you could certainly do worse.

it would have been easy to just say "I don't know" you really have no clue. Your first sentence explains it all "Ive honestly never heard of it". Thats the problem with these forums. Because although I have no reason to defend Castle Point, the whole "Ive never heard of it" argument comes into play when people talk about other places being "ghetto" that are anything but (Hazelwood, Ferguson, Florissant, Black Jack, Claverton Park, Bel-Nor, etc.) all nice areas that get lumped into the "oh ive never been there, or heard of it, but my mom told me to stay away so it must be bad"

It seems your getting North St. Louis city and North St. Louis COUNTY mixed up. Castle Point is in North St. Louis county, not really anywhere near Old North St. Louis. North St. Louis County is not bad at all, but there are patches of rough spots as there anywhere. For example Meacham Park in Kirkwood (South County).

Castle Point is a rough part of North County, but that doesnt mean the whole area is, or anywhere 'North" is the ghetto. But Castle Point is a very small place. Not trying to say you say these things, Im just talking about this whole city-data forum thing in general.

Now to answer the posters question. yes ive driven through Castle Point. No i honestly would not recommend it. Maybe for a simple rehab project it wouldnt be so bad, but there are other areas around it that are much much better and a "safer bet" for your money. For example Bellefontaine Neighbors, Dellwood. Two areas that are still nice and where rehab work would be good.

More info on Castle Point it is not actually a city. It is CDP (census designated place) of St. Louis County. So everything you would have to do if you did do a rehab would have to go through the county. I woud recommend looking into Spanish Lake, Bellefontaine, Dellwood, etc. for rehab projects. Castle Point might be what you want to do, but again im not going to lie it really isnt the nicest place. But that doesnt mean the areas around it are all like that either, much like Meacham park in Kirkwood.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 19,228,576 times
Reputation: 3628
You need to get off your high horse already. STLCardsBlues gave her opinion after looking into a bit. That's her right and none of her info was incorrect.

But the fact is: There are plenty of places in North St. Louis County that I would never suggest anyone live in, and not just because my mother told me, but rather because I've spent time there. Jennings is a perfect example of an area in NoCo that I've spent a good amount of time in and wouldn't suggest to anyone else out there. Jennings as well as Castle Point are not nice places to live, and my guess it that they won't be anytime soon.

And honestly everyone here knows exactly why you mentioned Meacham right now and it's really childish and insensitive.

Anyway, OP I can agree with Walnut Park that I would look into areas like Dellwood or better yet places in Florissant and Hazelwood that are more expensive, but will almost certainly get you a better return in the end.

Also look into areas in St. Louis city. Areas in the south are appreciating at faster rates, because they're in a more desirable area, but there's certainly money to be made. Plus there are great tax credits to look into.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:10 AM
TGS
 
361 posts, read 1,212,053 times
Reputation: 202
Castle Point is not the best area. Since it is not incorporated, it relies on St. Louis County for services such as police and code enforcement. These departments cover a huge area and just don't have the manpower to clean up Castle Point and keep it perfectly safe.

The areas nearby that are incorporated and have their own police departments (Florissant, Ferguson) are probably a better bet for return on investment, since the cities can focus on a smaller area and keep crime and code violations down. Florissant in particular has very active city management officials and police, which can be good or bad, depending on how you live.

The areas with better returns on investment are probably going to be in South County, though. The areas of Lemay and Affton are lower income but safe, and are seeing some significant investment lately by major corporations.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:32 PM
 
85 posts, read 232,833 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
You need to get off your high horse already. STLCardsBlues gave her opinion after looking into a bit. That's her right and none of her info was incorrect.

But the fact is: There are plenty of places in North St. Louis County that I would never suggest anyone live in, and not just because my mother told me, but rather because I've spent time there. Jennings is a perfect example of an area in NoCo that I've spent a good amount of time in and wouldn't suggest to anyone else out there. Jennings as well as Castle Point are not nice places to live, and my guess it that they won't be anytime soon.

And honestly everyone here knows exactly why you mentioned Meacham right now and it's really childish and insensitive.

Anyway, OP I can agree with Walnut Park that I would look into areas like Dellwood or better yet places in Florissant and Hazelwood that are more expensive, but will almost certainly get you a better return in the end.

Also look into areas in St. Louis city. Areas in the south are appreciating at faster rates, because they're in a more desirable area, but there's certainly money to be made. Plus there are great tax credits to look into.
I have to disagree STLCardsBlue did give some false info that might have confused the OP, and i quote "It looks like a rough place. There are lots of renovations going in North St. Louis, so it may eventually turn around like Soulard and Lafayette Square did, but I emphasize eventually.

But I have no experience there, so I can't tell you for sure. There is some revitalization going on in North St. Louis, but mostly in the areas kind of bordering downtown St. Louis. It may work its way north, but it could take a while."


Castle Point is not in North St. Louis, is nothing like Soulard or Lafayette Square, that is leading the OP on that this might be a nice area that is prime for rehab as many areas in NSTL are at the moment. This is a struggling surburban area, that will never be redeveloped because the housing stock is not very good at all and not really worth saving like many of the historic brick structures are in NSTL and older areas of North County. And its nowhere near Old NSTL.

My original post may come off as harsh but im just trying to give the OP the best info available from someone who lives nearby and has heard of the place. Castle Point I don't recommend.

Jennings on the other hand might actually be a great place to look at in order of rehab. I agree there are some very rough parts of Jennings, but there are also desirable parts with many charming brick bungalows. If the poster is looking to rehab and not live there, i would definately look into Jennings because although the community has been on a down spiral I believe it is having a revival of sorts with the renovation of Northland and other projects currently going, and the brick housing stock is well built in many parts and maybe ready for another look.

And about Meacham Park, I dont mention it because the trajedy that just happened, MP has had been bad for many many years, much like Castle Point has, I would have mentioned MP 20 years ago as a similar place to Castle Point.

Again I say no to Castle Point, because as long as it is under County Control it really has no chance. Look for areas with municipal govt. like Dellwood, Bellefontaine, Ferguson, and even some parts of Jennings.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 19,228,576 times
Reputation: 3628
Jennings is still very much in its downward spiral, so I wouldn't put much hope in it, but I've been wrong before and I'd be happy to be wrong again. I do agree the housing stock isn't bad, though not as good as some of the other areas you mentioned. My close friend lives on a quiet street in a little bungalow that could just as easily be in South city and be worth twice as much, but sadly this is more an exception rather than a rule.

I would also say, that despite the high profile events in Meacham Park, its still a nicer place to live than Castle Point, and at least they have basic services provided by the city of Kirkwood.

Anyway, I see what you mean, but you also should know that the poster you attacked is a senior member of this online community who often had great insights to share and it's not right for someone with 8 posts to attack her with so little respect.

There's better and more appropriate ways to disagree with someone.
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,823 posts, read 11,741,942 times
Reputation: 3183
By the way, I asked about it on another forum and got about 4 replies. Most of them say it'd be better to invest in a different area.
Urban St. Louis - View topic - Castle Point (http://urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=5362 - broken link)

According to dweebe:
Quote:
I would look elsewhere in North County: Castle Point has to be one of the worst areas to live. There's plenty of fine housing stock in other areas with decent neighbors working hard to live in the modest housing they can afford. The neighborhood has always be trashy and rough: no matter the color of people living there.
There's some other info there. I hope that helps.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Ballwin, MO
366 posts, read 1,227,106 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalnutPark829 View Post
And about Meacham Park, I dont mention it because the trajedy that just happened, MP has had been bad for many many years, much like Castle Point has, I would have mentioned MP 20 years ago as a similar place to Castle Point.
Apparently you are doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. When was the last time you were in Meacham Park? Meacham Park is just as good a neighborhood as any in town for the last few years. Are you basing this because years ago it was a depressed area? Certainly you're not basing this on the present condition of the town.

STLCardsBlues1989 did an excellent job of telling the OP how it is, stating that all her info was second hand, and did all the leg work that this poster probably could've done themselves. You've got 10 posts and are already saying what you don't like about message boards, not to say you aren't totally off in your remarks. But, if you don't like them, nicely change them. Be a friendly productive member. Remember, these are mainly opinions. Nobody is saying they are the end all, know all gift to the board. Again, you gave your opinion on Meacham Park, I disagree. Who's right? And before you decide who's right, please drive through it. I do almost everyday.

From your post in the Kirkwood tragedy thread:
Quote:
And about Meacham Park, your naive if you believe Kirkwoods intentions were to help the area out, they tried to force out the residents but could not get rid of them all. Thats why they immediately started tearing down homes and building shopping centers misplacing many of the poor people.

This murderer was sick in the head and his illness was due to him feeling slighted for being black, it had everything to do with race, the people of meacham park feel slighted like an ugly step child of the city of Kirkwood.

Kirkwood has done very little over the last 18 years, and the years before that as neighbors, to help ease this problem and include MP into the conversation and truly accept them as "a real part of kirkwood."

Many whites in Kirkwood would like to knock the whole neighborhood down and send "the problem" somewhere else "where they belong" and build shopping centers and luxury condos in their place.
I could not agree with your words here more with two exceptions Your saying it had everything to do with race is one. What I believe was that it had everything to do with race...in his mind. There is a big difference. And I would leave out that many whites in Kirkwood. I think that's many people in Kirkwood. Remember, a lot of people that don't like MP are only thinking of how bad it used to be. Sort of like you did.

Last edited by RickMG; 02-14-2008 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: St louis
4 posts, read 12,204 times
Reputation: 18
Dont Do It, That's The Baddest Place In St Louis And Believe Me When I Say This It Just Look So Bad Over There Im African American Myself And I Have Two Teenagers Children That I Wouldnt Dare Raise Over There In Castle Point Or Castle Park Nooooooo Bad Decision Try Looking Somewhere Else To Buy Property Because Over There In Castle Point They Will Give U A Rin For Ur Money
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