So...where did YOU go to high school? (St. Louis, Rea: apartments, lease)

[Bobster]

Anduarto...I think that you are probably right on the poverty issue. I do think that it's getting harder to rise above whatever station that you are born into and that's a bad thing! I'm a fiscally conservative, socially responsible democrat and I'll be the first to say that I think that welfare programs have done more to hurt poor people that they have done to help them.

That said, it benefits the entire society when poor people are provided a chance to better their circumstances....to quote that famous liberal thinker Ronald Reagan, "All boats rise with a rising tide".....unfortunately, like I said, it's getting harder to rise above your station in life when it's almost impossible to get a college education unless you're at LEAST middle - middle class. Even if you're able to get that degree and you're less than wealthy, you're generally saddled with a butt load of debt and that's no way to start a life.

In a society that can afford to spend $150,000,000.00 on a new football stadium when the old one is only 20 years old or that can spend the money to maintain a nuclear arsenal that has the capability to kill every man, woman and child on the planet something like 100 times over...surely we can come up with the bucks to send kids to college regardless if they were lucky enough to be born into the right class!

Education is the key to reducing poverty. From pre-school to post graduate school, it shouldn't matter which "high school" you went to, by the time you're done with school you should be "all that you can be". It's a question of our society's priorities.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Bobster

Anduarto...I think that you are probably right on the poverty issue. I do think that it's getting harder to rise above whatever station that you are born into and that's a bad thing! I'm a fiscally conservative, socially responsible democrat and I'll be the first to say that I think that welfare programs have done more to hurt poor people that they have done to help them.

That said, it benefits the entire society when poor people are provided a chance to better their circumstances....to quote that famous liberal thinker Ronald Reagan, "All boats rise with a rising tide".....unfortunately, like I said, it's getting harder to rise above your station in life when it's almost impossible to get a college education unless you're at LEAST middle - middle class. Even if you're able to get that degree and you're less than wealthy, you're generally saddled with a butt load of debt and that's no way to start a life.

In a society that can afford to spend $150,000,000.00 on a new football stadium when the old one is only 20 years old or that can spend the money to maintain a nuclear arsenal that has the capability to kill every man, woman and child on the planet something like 100 times over...surely we can come up with the bucks to send kids to college regardless if they were lucky enough to be born into the right class!

Education is the key to reducing poverty. From pre-school to post graduate school, it shouldn't matter which "high school" you went to, by the time you're done with school you should be "all that you can be". It's a question of our society's priorities.

But these programs are already in place!!!

There are numerous publicly funded universities in this state. Their tuition is highly subsidized by the state, and most people should be able to attend these universities and pay off the tuition during the school year by working part-time and summers. If students come from a very poor family, then they should fill out the forms from the government in order to receive Pell Grants and subsidized student loans. The public universities will find a way to help all students fund their education. Also, poor students should be searching for scholarships. They are out there. Even if they have to hobble together a bunch of $500 scholarships, every penny counts.

For the students who need extra help due to a substandard high school education, then the local community colleges are perfect. The community colleges in St. Louis charge less than $100 per credit hour, and have small classes with teachers focused on teaching, not research. The community colleges are also perfect for students who can stay with their parents, so they can get the first two years of college out of the way without having to leave home. That is far cheaper than living in the dorms.

Anyone who wants a college education can get one. The real problem is kids these days taking on massive student loans when they can't afford it, especially by attending a private university when the could attend a comparable public university. Also, kids don't like to work during college anymore, which is a great way to pay off the student loans during college, not afterwards. This may not be the kids' fault, since they are usually just following their parents' lead of going into debt for something they can't afford.

Maybe the best thing would be for high school students to have a class where someone helps them fill out college applications, financial aid forms, and scholarship applications. This is especially true for inner-city minority students. There is a massive amount of scholarship money available to them, but they have to apply. Most private schools have a person at the school that will guide students and their families through this process, but that may not happen at the public schools. My public school didn't. I think that the St. Louis Public School have been allowing a charitable organization to do this for the last few years, which is great.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by TGS

But these programs are already in place!!!

There are numerous publicly funded universities in this state. Their tuition is highly subsidized by the state, and most people should be able to attend these universities and pay off the tuition during the school year by working part-time and summers. If students come from a very poor family, then they should fill out the forms from the government in order to receive Pell Grants and subsidized student loans. The public universities will find a way to help all students fund their education. Also, poor students should be searching for scholarships. They are out there. Even if they have to hobble together a bunch of $500 scholarships, every penny counts.

I think it's been a while since you were trying to pay for college.
I got 5k in scholarships and $1500 in grants every year, worked part time during the school year and full time during the summer and still left college with 20k in loans. (From Mizzou) and I had a lot of parental support that most kids do not have!

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by WestCoDude

The Catholic school system here is so amazing lots of non-Catholic families send their kids to Catholic schools. And, depending on where you live, the public schools are quite strong in many parts of the county and I would wager that many public schools are majority Catholic. If you send your kids to a public school, it's not like they'll be a minority or anything. I mean....come on!....it's St. Louis! lol. It's a very Catholic city. If you do choose to go parochial, there are many, many solid options and depending on where you're moving, I can certainly recommend some.

For public schools, the Rockwood and Parkway districts are especially strong in West County. Ladue and Clayton, a bit closer to the city, are pretty solid, too. The only really terrible schools are St. Louis City public schools....so much so the Catholic school system has capitalized on it and become really very dominant in the city.

If you're looking at Catholic schools....St. Louis University High is one of the better ones in the city. Visitation, desmet, JFK, and, as my story suggests, Nerinx Hall are all very, very good (though, obviously, Nerinx Hall is all-girls). Christian Bros. High is a really good Jesuit school and has excellent college placement (I think it's all-boys, though I could be wrong). If you're gonna be in West County...Gateway Academy, though pretty pricey, is an excellent Catholic school in Chesterfield. You can rest assured that no matter where you are in the metro area, you will be very close to any number of good private schools.

CBC actually is not a Jesuit school, it is run by the Christian Brothers. It's not as strong academically as some of the other all male Catholic High schools.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by aragx6

SLU High is all boys too, Visitation all girls, very few of the best ones are co-ed. (One of my bigger pet peeves, and a reason I'd be loathe to send my kid to one of them)

Where you live now, in Chicago, some of the very strong Catholic all male High Schools went co-ed about 10 years ago, i.e. Loyola Academy, Fenwick, etc...

[aragx6]

Which I think is great.

I really don't want my kid to be in close quarters with the opposite sex for the first time in College... no good can come from that haha!

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Which I think is great.

I really don't want my kid to be in close quarters with the opposite sex for the first time in College... no good can come from that haha!

Many of the all male high school kids spend 7 days a week with some interaction with private or public school girls in St. Louis. At high school sporting events, mixers/dances, fund raisers, clubs, all kinds of things, high school plays.....how do you think the guy schools have plays? They recruit girls from other schools in the area. It's really only during school hours that they don't see or interact with girls. And with this, many of the private schools have special privileges for Seniors to go off campus often, or have lots of service project requirements due to their school's missions, off campus as an underclassmen.

The rest of the time they are in class or doing school work.

I don't think it is that big of a deal. Some people who feel more strongly about it than me would argue that kids focus more on their schoolwork and get more done or don't have to worry about how they look or dress, etc...

It was done in Chicago only for economic reasons. Mary Institute has benefited from its merger with Country Day in St. Louis. (Private, but non-Catholic school example)

I think it's fine either way.

[aragx6]

I'm not arguing there are reasons it makes sense, and I know there is plenty of mixing, but I also think it's easier to miss out on those opportunities. A lot of guys don't do plays.

Also I don't know about every school obviously, but I briefly dated a guy that went to SLU High and they couldn't even go to their school dances if they didn't have a date, whereas at my co-ed school we often went without dates and had a great time. Seems like this might leave out some of the less popular guys, or guys who aren't good at asking girls out.

It's really all personal opinion, I can see reasons why parents like it, I'm just more of the type who wants to expose my kids to a lot early on.

[Bobster]

TGS....Grant and financial aid programs have been whittled away to a shell of their former self. While it is "possible" to go to college if you are from a lessor socio-economic class, it's far from easy! It's not even truly practical to expect a kid to be able to do it.

Even at a state school with 100% financial aid, it's very difficult. "If" you live in the dorm, "If" you never buck up for your share of a pizza, "If" you don't ever go home for a visit, "If" you go hungry during the breaks, then you've got a shot at making it.

Having just bucked up $185.00 for a used text book for my son, I can tell you that even with financial aid, that putting him through school is difficult at best.

That's not to mention if you have a second or third kid in college. My daughter, who just graduated from "The" Ohio State University was a National Merit Scholar and was supposedly on a "full-ride" scholarship still went hungry on a couple of occasions. Even with my ex-wife's assistance, my assistance, as well as my girlfriend pitching in, there were times when we were all tapped out and she simply had to make due.

The fact that I'm in real estate and mortgage banking didn't help, but my ex is an occupational therapist, and my girlfriend is in middle management at a local corporation...so, we're pretty much in the middle of the middle class. With two kids in college I'm driving an 8 year old car with almost 150,000 miles on it. In the past three years, I've taken one, four day vacation where we drove and stayed at a $60.00 a night hotel.

So, if you still feel that "most" people should be able to attend a state school and be able to pay off their student loans by working in the summer, do the math.

Even working 30 hours a week at $8.00 an hour during the school year and working 50 hours a week during the summer.

That's somewhere around $13,500.00 a year in income.
Add to that any grants and/or scholarships that you can finagle. If you're going to a state school and getting "100%" financial aid that's going to be around $10,000.00 or so.

That brings your income up to $24,500.00. Now subtract off the costs of books, fees and tuition (at Auburn - in state, btw - that's about $7,500.00 per year). That leaves about $17,000.00 to live on for everything else...or about $1,400 a month.

Now subtract off rent, food, travel expenses (if you want to ever go home to visit), insurance, car repair.....the stuff that costs you regardless if you're a student or not and I think that you'll see where I'm coming from on this one.

Even with my son living in a cheap, one bed room apartment, my girlfriend and I buck up somewhere to the tune of $1,200 or $1,300 a month to keep him going. He's not living high on the hog either! As a matter of fact, he's the "poor" kid in his social circle! We've seen several of his friends from more modest backgrounds drop out.

Sorry for the length of this rant, but I'm living it and what you said simply isn't correct!

[aragx6]

Thanks Bob! I feel for ya (And I will be until 2040 when I have my loans paid off!) And I was a lucky one!