So...where did YOU go to high school? (St. Louis, Columbia: spring break, student loans)

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I'm not arguing there are reasons it makes sense, and I know there is plenty of mixing, but I also think it's easier to miss out on those opportunities. A lot of guys don't do plays.

Also I don't know about every school obviously, but I briefly dated a guy that went to SLU High and they couldn't even go to their school dances if they didn't have a date, whereas at my co-ed school we often went without dates and had a great time. Seems like this might leave out some of the less popular guys, or guys who aren't good at asking girls out.

It's really all personal opinion, I can see reasons why parents like it, I'm just more of the type who wants to expose my kids to a lot early on.

You clearly missed the point by focusing on only of the examples. Did I miss when the girls play on the boys sports teams? They do go watch the boys teams play, whether they are watching theri own co-ed school, another co-ed school, or single sex all male schools.

Your facts aren't correct regarding SLUH as well. Any kid is welcome to their school dances whether they have a date or not.

Kids at single sex schools get exposed to the opposite sex on a daily basis. A lot of kids who choose these schools, do so based on academics, athletics, and friendships among other reasons, with academics leading the way.

If you want to expose your kids to a lot early on, then I'm sure you'll expose your kid to those boys from the all male schools too. Thus further illustrating the point that it isn't a big deal either way.

[aragx6]

I don't know why you have a need to argue with me on this given that I already said I have no desire to argue.

If the SLU High thing isn't right now then so be it, but this was 6 years ago and I know for a fact that tickets were sold by the couple only.

[TGS]

Bobster,

I can feel the frustration in your post. Lets run the numbers, though.

Community college in St. Louis. Tuition will run $2,916 a year (18 credits a semester for two semesters), or $243/month. Student shares a large two bedroom apartment in the city with another student for $800/month, so only pays $400/month. Let's give them an average utility schedule and say they spend $200/month in utilities, so $100/month. A student living in the city can realistically get by with a bus/metro pass for $50/month. Then give them $400/month for food, supplies, and fun. Total: $1,143 a month for bare-bones living and educational expenses, with no scholarships and financial aid. This assumes that the student stays on the parent's health insurance. If the student lives at home instead, then the living expenses would be much, much less, and the student can get a car.

But let's say the kid doesn't want to go to community college so decides to go to South East Missouri State. For tuition, book rental, room and the maximum food plan, it will cost $11,901 according to their website. That is $991 a month, and assumes that the kid will return home for summer to live with parents. It also assumes that since the student is living on campus, they don't need a car. Again, that is no scholarships or financial aid whatsoever. Let's throw on an extra $200/month for fun and eating out (which they shouldn't have to do much, since they have the food plan), and it is only $1,191/month, still around the range of the earnings you cited.

These numbers aren't pretty, but can be done. If at any time a person can afford to live "poor," it is in college. Throw a few scholarships into the picture, and the numbers get a lot rosier.

However, let's say that the student doesn't want to go to an average school like SEMO, and instead wants to attend one of the best schools in the nation. They enroll in Truman State, which puts their student budget including books, room and board, transportation, and personal expenses (which I assume includes beer and pizza) at $17,277. Spread out over twelve months, that is $1,439. That student may have to work a few more hours in the summer, but once again it can be done. Most students at Truman have scholarships, though.

If we take your figure of income at $13,500, these budgets look workable. If we take your figure of income with financial aid at $24,500, these budgets look downright fantastic.

Also, if I were a poverty-level student, I wouldn't drop out just because I had to live in the dorms, couldn't afford my share of pizza, or couldn't travel home, per your examples. I was that poverty-level student on a scholarship with no possibility of help from my parents, and I knew plenty of other students like that. We made due with what we had. Most would work in fancy restaurants in order to get good free meals and to take home leftovers, and shop at the consignment stores, where the middle-class kids sold their name brand clothes for beer money. There were free movies and concerts on campus all the time, so it wasn't hard to find something to do. It was the middle class kids that seemed to get into trouble with the credit cards and student loans, simply because they wanted the same standard of living as when they lived at home. I graduated with no debt from Mizzou and a scholarship to grad school. It can be done.

Oh, and I know these college budgets well because I help lower-income students plan for college. I am an optimist and believe that as daunting as it may look, there is a way for everyone to complete college without massive debt.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I don't know why you have a need to argue with me on this given that I already said I have no desire to argue.

If the SLU High thing isn't right now then so be it, but this was 6 years ago and I know for a fact that tickets were sold by the couple only.

Did they have to go as a couple? I can see the school wanting to sell a pair of tickets instead of just one ticket in order to increase revenue.

[aragx6]

Truman is one of the "best schools in the nation" hahahaha

[anduarto]

About coed or not; I think it's all a matter of taste and both environments have aspects to recommend them.

I spent freshmen year at a huge coed highschool (DuBourg) and transferred to a much smaller (at the time) all male highschool (DeSmet). I REALLY didn't want to go. We'd moved and I couldn't stay at DuBourg. I lobbied hard for Kennedy. I thought going to an all male school - particularly one known as a "jock" school - would be like going into the army. It was a major skirmish with the parents.

They won.

Much to my surprise, it wasn't like the army at all. In fact, in a weird way, it was a gentler environment than the coed school. There was less competition. Because there were no girls around the guys seemed to relax a little and drop a lot of the posturing male bull****. There was less need to put on a front. People seemed more real somehow than they did at DuBourg.

Maybe it had as much to do with the size of the school, the family backgrounds of the students, etc as the fact it was all one sex, but it was a strikingly different environment.

And nobody lacked for social interaction with girls. Senior year my best friend was a Vis girl. My "crowd" was a hodge-podge of girls and guys from many different schools. I took a St. Joe girl to my prom, went to St. Joe's prom with another girl and John Burroughs with yet another.

I think the "couples only" rule is sucky though and should be relegated to the past. That way everybody could go - popular, attached or not. Think of all the awkward humiliating scenarios it would avert! And gay kids could enjoy it without being forced to either "make a statement" or "live a lie".

[Bobster]

TGS....I'm not saying that it's impossible to make it work, it's just DAMN difficult!

I realize that in my situation both of my kids went to schools that were in different states (my ex lived in Alabama, so Auburn was an "in-state" school for him), which made it more expensive due to traveling expenses. That said, I'm living it!

While you did a good job of outlining some of the expenses, the reality of the matter is that it's just damn expensive to go to college! That's even if you do the free stuff. A twelve pack of beer costs the same if you're an adult or if you're a college kid. They might get their weed a bit cheaper, but car insurance, cable (internet), utilities, food, rent (most apartment require that you sign a 1 year lease) and all the other day to day expenses make it hard. Not impossible, just extremely difficult.

Honestly, considering the amount of resources that we've thrown at the problem, I don't know how anybody from lesser socio-economic circumstances can do it. I would guess ( I haven't done the research) that the drop out rate for students probably coincides with their family's economic circumstances pretty damn well....I could be wrong, but from what I've seen from my kids friends, we're right about at the cut off point on that spectrum.

Our society would be better off if we funded our kids better in regards to obtaining a higher education..

Oh, one other point, what about someone who isn't a kid? Say a 20 or 30 something that realizes that they need to get a college education. Community colleges are cool for the first two years, but after that it gets really expensive, really quick!

[TGS]

If a student lives in the dorms on campus, then a lot of the extra expenses you cited (rent, utilities, cable, Internet, car) just aren't needed. I think it is the expectation of young people these days that they will live like they did back home while in college, and their parents' sincere desire to give them what they want, that kills the budgets. When kids are forced to pay for their own education and expenses, it is surprising how much less they "need." When my brother and sister went to college (10 and 15 years ahead of when I went), it was rare for middle class parents to fund their kids' lifestyles the way they do today.

The fact is that anyone who wants a college education can get one on the cheap at a state school. If a student can' afford cars, apartments off campus, cable, ect., they shouldn't drop out. It is only a few years. Maybe if they can't afford Natural Light, it is time to throw in the towel.

I do applaud you for driving a car with 150,000 miles on it while you pay for an apartment for your kid. I hope they sincerely appreciate the sacrifice.

For working adults, that is a tough one. UMSL and Mizzou both have night programs, so it isn't impossible. Once you get a spouse, kid, and a house, it is rough to step back and spend the time and money on a degree. Then again, there are a lot of grad students that do it. There were even some people in their 50s in my grad school program. I guess it is all about priorities.

[aragx6]

Actually at Mizzou it was far more expensive to live on campus rather than off. To live in the cheapest dorm on campus at the time cost right at $600 a month.

When living in a duplex with friends I paid $250 rent, $60 utilities and far less than that $290 left over on food (more like $200 a month)

I'm confused by your point though. You say most parents help their kids pay for school, but this is not the case for many students I knew. It is very difficult to do on your own, but in previous posts you seem to dismiss this.

[anr_black]

I didn't read the whole thread, so someone may have mentioned this, but when we first moved here, I thought "where did you go to school" meant college, not high school! That question still surprises me. It's almost like a lot of people feel defined by high school. Makes me imagine ex football players and cheerleaders sitting at a bar after work reliving the glory days

And for the record, I grew up in a small farm town where everyone went to the same county high school! So it's a non-issue for those of us new to this area.