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Old 02-01-2017, 05:30 AM
 
5 posts, read 6,209 times
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Hello! I am considering a job in St. Louis at Washington University. I've done some cost of living comparisons, and it seems like St. Louis is overall cheaper to live. This, combined with my salary increasing, makes this an attractive move. However, I know nothing about St. Louis!

A little bit me/us: I'm 34 and my partner is 38. Currently do not have kids, but eventually would like one. I moved to Maryland 6 years ago from southern Jersey, and I'm originally from Philly, right across the river. My partner is from rural PA and lived on a dairy farm. I used to think I loved living in the city and populated areas, but I just don't much anymore. Where we currently live in MD is in town, but we are surrounded by countryside... and the goal has been for us, when we eventually buy property, to have a few acres. I say this to say, if we did move to the area, we would most likely live outside of the city and I would commute in.

Also, we're gay, and in the little bit of research I've done, it seems that St. Louis is pretty diverse and LGBT friendly. This is important to us, especially coming from the NE part of the U.S.

My questions for you all:

- In my research regarding places to live and cost of living comparisons, what areas/towns should I be looking at? Should it be on the MO or IL side? We would like to live in the suburbs or even rural areas, renting a single family home. I don't mind a commute - I wouldn't want to commute longer than 40 min. if possible.

- Can anyone speak honestly to the overall vibe of the LGBT population in the area? Both in St. Louis and outside of the city, if that's where we will be living?

- We are really big outdoor lovers and nature is important to us. We camp, hike, fish, and backpack. We are kind of spoiled where we are at right now - about 20 min. from the Appalachian Trail and many mountain ranges. I see there are some National forests around. Can anyone speak to the outdoor activities and recreation in the area?

- Ok, this may be a dumb question, but - has anyone moved to the area from the coast before who loved the ocean? And if you did, how did you cope? Seefms like the closest large body of water is Lake Michigan. I'm sure there are lots of options around, like lakes and rivers, but when you are a true ocean lover, being that far away is distressing.

- Is there anything else I should consider?

I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this and respond!
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:47 AM
 
3,529 posts, read 2,172,235 times
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If you're looking for rural areas, I'd say the Illinois side is better; you may be able to get multiple acres with a view of the Arch in downtown St. Louis, due to the lack of development on that side of the river. However, the more rural your surroundings, the less LGBT-friendly and more Bible-belt they're likely to be. The diversity and LGBT-friendliness of St. Louis is much more prominent in the urban center.

St. Louis has a wealth of nearby trails and caves, and so many rivers it's very nearly an island. Hunting and fishing are very popular around here, as are camping, and floating on the river.

For reference: https://explorestlouis.com/discover/st-louis-lgbt/
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:23 AM
 
Location: St. Louis City
447 posts, read 765,296 times
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Hi there. Originally from rural Missouri, I spent several years on the east coast living in Delaware, close to the beaches (Rehoboth Beach) and the Pocono mountains in PA. I also spent a lot of time in Baltimore / Philly. I moved back to Missouri, and St. Louis in 2001.




I would be happy to answer any questions you may have about the area and the LGBT community.


Personally, I find St. Louis a very east coast oriented city. This could be due in part to its age and significance in history. We were once the 4th largest city in the nation, and hosted both the Olympics and the Worlds Fair. We have a lot of very distinct neighborhoods, and while the urban center does have the traditional grid layout, we also the state and federal highways the radiate from the downtown area. Being in the Midwest where land is more abundant, we did experience the urban sprawl that carried significant portions of our population further and further out, but we were left with some very historic homes in quaint neighborhoods that today are gentrifying and many south city neighborhoods. Desirable neighborhoods range from the Grove (which is where the majority of our LGBT establishments are today), Tower Grove (a strong residential area for many LGBT members as this was one home to our annual pride parade and festival), Soulard (I popular entertainment district near downtown, the brewery, and home to Mardi Gras - similar to the French Quarter in New Orleans), and the Central West End (cosmopolitan, urban neighborhood with high rises, and adjacent to Forest Park, home of BJC medical complex and close to both SLU and Wash U). Of course, there are also several loft options downtown.


Personally, I always found Soulard to be very much like small town living in the midst of the city. You are able to walk the restaurants and bars, not overwhelming street traffic, and you are close to all major highways. Local's refer to it as 'the island' as it is separated from the city in a sense by I-55 to the east.


You mentioned having children someday. The public schools in the city are often a concern, but I read about charter and magnet schools. I am sure others with children can offer more here.


Regarding a more rural environment, Illinois definitely has more open land closer to the city, but you would have to cross the bridges daily to come into the city for work at Wash U. The bridges tend to have more traffic during peak times, though traffic here is lighter than the east coast.


There are several wonderful parks you can look into - in southern Illinois there is Garden of the Gods, in Missouri I am fond of Tom Sauk Mountain for hiking, and Johnson Shut Inns for summer fun in crystal clear waters. Nearby is also Elephant Rocks state park. St. Louis County does have the 'foothills' so to speak of the St Fanchis mountains, not nearly as majestic as the Appalachian Trail or the Rockys, but still beautiful. There are also some county parks near Eureka that I pass through on the way to Six Flags Amusement Park, or to Hidden Valley in the winter time to ski locally (again, nothing like the Rockies or Vermont, but for a day trip and man made snow, its decent).


If you are looking for more room on the Missouri side, I would suggest the southern areas, which I suspect due to their elevation changes, were slower to develop than the north and the west. I do have friends with a horse farm on the Illinois side and they seem pretty happy here too (another gay couple with a child).


Being raised in Missouri, I never group up around the beaches. But I always had the river (not the same, and I never played in it). We do have several large man made lakes with several vacationers. Lake of the Ozarks is very popular, and also in the spring Float Trips on the country rivers are very popular (and, admittedly a good time!). So, even though I would visit the beach while living there, I really don't miss it much. And, we are only 1.5 to 2 hours by plane to the east coast if you want to visit, and airfare is pretty affordable.


Finally, I am very happy here in the LGBT community. I have met a lot of people, made many friends. People say that it is hard to meet people here, but I think that is everywhere. As an adult, most people have their core group of friends, so naturally it is a little harder to break in. I have played LGBT sports here (kickball, volleyball and softball - the latter of which introduced me to my partner of nearly 12 years, who was a local). We have numerous bars - some small and neighborhood oriented and some a little larger. Their are social groups, dart leagues and I am sure other things I have not experienced. Living in the city, I have really never experienced any negativities, and that is over now about 16 years.


I hope I was able to answer some questions. Feel free to private message me if you have any more or would like to elaborate on any topics I presented. I am sure you will get a lot of opinions, but this is mine.
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:06 AM
 
5 posts, read 6,209 times
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Thank you Frank and Mike for responding! Very helpful. Mike - you've spent some in the areas of the country I'm very familiar with, so you definitely know where I'm coming from (literally) and what I'm used to. It's comforting to hear you say that it's similar to an east-coast vibe. Also comforting to know that even though there aren't beaches, there's plenty of recreational opportunities in the water.

Mike, I do have a few additional questions.

- Apartment living is out for us... we need a yard. I think we could stand living in the city or right outside of the city if it was a neighborhood that wasn't completely high rises or condos. Does St. Louis have duplex/town home/brownstone type of neighborhoods? If so, which ones? I even saw there were some neighborhoods with little single family homes, such as in Richmond Heights. That would be good with us too! It sounds like the recommendation if Soulard might be good for us.

- I see one of the benefits of WU is they offer a free Metro pass. I tried researching the metro system a bit, but it's confusing. Is there any particular neighborhood(s) that are better in regards to that? It would be nice to use the free benefit instead of driving in and parking.

- Are there neighborhoods to definitely stay away from?

We wouldn't purchase a house right away... so I'm sure once we live there for a while and get a feel for things, we'd have a better idea of where we would want to live. In the meantime, we will be comparing areas that have decent rent prices and try to get some of what we want so we can be relatively content in our day-to-day life.

I know what you mean about meeting new friends as an adult. A benefit of living in the city would be that we'd have a larger community of people to pool from, more access to events and such that are close. I suppose if I get an interview, I should find a reliable realtor to take us around to certain places and neighborhoods to really get a feel for things.
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:07 AM
 
186 posts, read 125,381 times
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I'm from the Chicago area and we (my husband, son and I) are moving to St. Louis probably this summer. He works there now and it's a heck of a commute! Traveling through Illinois outside the Chicago area is very very very different, and I would venture to say alternative lifestyles are a novelity. I would recommend sticking to St. Louis or surrounding area. We are looking into st Charles. We are looking for a more laid back family friendly place. The Katy trail looks very nice and if you are into hiking and such, that is something you may wish to discover.

Towers grove is suppose to be really happening now with lots of shops, bars etc. as mentioned the soulard is nice and don't forget central west end.

Think about visiting, from our visits St. Louis is a very charming city, easy to get around and it's true you are about 20 minutes away from most places.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Chicago
2,357 posts, read 2,009,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souperjen24 View Post
Mike, I do have a few additional questions.

- Apartment living is out for us... we need a yard. I think we could stand living in the city or right outside of the city if it was a neighborhood that wasn't completely high rises or condos. Does St. Louis have duplex/town home/brownstone type of neighborhoods? If so, which ones? I even saw there were some neighborhoods with little single family homes, such as in Richmond Heights. That would be good with us too! It sounds like the recommendation if Soulard might be good for us.
St. Louis is predominantly made up of single family homes. Many also have small yards. In regards to Richmond Heights, that would be apart of St. Louis County rather than the city itself. The most well off neighborhood in the city would be the Central West End, on the opposite side of Forest Park from Wash U.

Quote:
- I see one of the benefits of WU is they offer a free Metro pass. I tried researching the metro system a bit, but it's confusing. Is there any particular neighborhood(s) that are better in regards to that? It would be nice to use the free benefit instead of driving in and parking.
In the city MetroLink runs east/west through the central corridor. There is talk of a north/south line, but for the time being it remains talk. One thing that will be different in St. Louis, and essentially every other city in the Midwest not named Chicago, is that a great many people will look down upon public transportation and or think it's for people too poor to afford a car. The exception seems to be taking it to events in order to sidestep traffic, as certain stations, typically outside of the city, are park and ride.

You mentioned Soulard before, I will point out that Soulard is not connected to the MetroLink light rail system.

These two maps can be a tad confusing because they have the MetroLink light rail lines and the MetroBus lines overlapping, but if you zoom in you should be able to follow where the MetroLink is going:
https://www.metrostlouis.org/wp-cont...O_WEB-MAP3.pdf
https://www.metrostlouis.org/wp-cont...L_WEB-MAP4.pdf
https://www.metrostlouis.org/wp-cont...n_WEB-MAP2.pdf
https://www.metrostlouis.org/wp-cont...IL_WEB-MAP.pdf

Here's where they came form:
https://www.metrostlouis.org/system-maps/

Quote:
- Are there neighborhoods to definitely stay away from?
The majority of St. Louis' homicides occur in north St. Louis. The general rule of thumb is to stay south of Delmar, although that's not necessarily true near Wash U's campus as you have the Delmar Loop split between University City and the city of St. Louis. This is also not to say that there are no safe areas in north St. Louis, or that south St. Louis is entirely safe. Think of it as the stereotype when people talk about South Side of Chicago versus the North Side, although in Chicago's case the directions are switched.

I will note that St. Louis has been having trouble with its homicide rate the last few years. This map of homicides in the city and the region might be helpful to you in regards to areas you'd like to consider:
2016 St. Louis area homicide map | Special Features | stltoday.com

Quote:
We wouldn't purchase a house right away... so I'm sure once we live there for a while and get a feel for things, we'd have a better idea of where we would want to live. In the meantime, we will be comparing areas that have decent rent prices and try to get some of what we want so we can be relatively content in our day-to-day life.
I'm not sure what your salaries will be of course, but I think you'll find rent in St. Louis to be much cheaper than what you were getting out east in a city like Philadelphia, so that's a plus.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:12 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
447 posts, read 296,876 times
Reputation: 364
StL is cheaper, but salaries are also lower than Northeastern and West Coast cities. Pound-for-pound, though, it's easy to live well here.

And the news cycle is rough here. Our stations have a perpetually negative fixation. I didn't realize this until I lived outside of StL. Some folks get wrapped-up with it. Don't be like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souperjen24 View Post
- In my research regarding places to live and cost of living comparisons, what areas/towns should I be looking at? Should it be on the MO or IL side? We would like to live in the suburbs or even rural areas, renting a single family home. I don't mind a commute - I wouldn't want to commute longer than 40 min. if possible.
In general, you will not be able to find affordable acreage in MO within 40 minutes of Washington University. There may be some plots around Eureka or Fenton, but that's probably it. If you have a large budget (500k+), you might score a decent plot in West County.

However, the the IL side (Metro East) still has abundant acreage. My first choice would be Edwardsville, followed by Glen Carbon, Maryville, and Columbia. It's a large area, however. Too many places to list in one post.

If you don't want acreage and are ok with a cookie-cutter home, your options expand to most of StL County.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souperjen24 View Post
- We are really big outdoor lovers and nature is important to us. We camp, hike, fish, and backpack. We are kind of spoiled where we are at right now - about 20 min. from the Appalachian Trail and many mountain ranges. I see there are some National forests around. Can anyone speak to the outdoor activities and recreation in the area?
StL is certainly not Boulder or Asheville, but it has more variety than most Midwestern cities.

StL is on the edge of the Ozarks. As another poster mentioned, they are not the Appalachians, but its certainly a scenic area. Plenty of crystal-clear lakes, rivers, fly-fishing, backpacking, etc. There is a national park, dozens of state parks, and the national forests. I've spent a lot of time hiking near Iron County, which IMO, is the most scenic area in MO. "Float trips" are a popular activity on the rivers, and of course, the Lake of the Ozarks is well known for boating.

Within town, I jog Forest Park frequently. It has a lot of young folks and energy. Sometimes I'll drive out to Castlewood, Creve Coeur Lake, or the Chain-of-Rocks. And Madison County has the finest bike trail system I have ever seen. It'd be interesting to hear favorites from other posters on this forum.

Last edited by RisingAurvandil; 02-01-2017 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
1,877 posts, read 3,856,268 times
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Some thoughts:

IL gets rural quickly, MO takes longer.

I'm not particularly outdoorsy, but the few things that stick out most to me are the Katy Trail (through St Charles County and beyond) for biking, and Castlewood State Park off 44 near Valley Park/Eureka, Babler State Park in Wildwood, and Pere Marquette State Park near Grafton IL for nearby hiking/outdoorsiness.

I grew up along Lake Michigan, but don't really mind not being on the water. For water/boating opportunities, Lake of the Ozarks is super popular for St Louisans, and I have a few coworkers who go to Carlyle Lake (actually a giant reservoir) in IL. More locally, I've heard of people using Creve Coeur lake for sailing/kayak/canoeing. I also have a friend that lives on Lake St Louis.

Most of STL isn't highrises or condos (or even townhouses for that matter). Lots and lots of single family homes in the city. Like, all of south city. The Grove has been "the" LGBT friendly neighborhood for years, and it's very very trendy right now--lots of renovations going on, with some new builds too. Good mix of apartments, townhouses, SFHs. The better part is north of Manchester vs. South. I looked at a house on the north side of the grove that was a half mile walk to the CWE train station (there's a pedestrian bridge over the highway). The surrounding neighborhoods are all trending up right now too--Shaw, Tower Grove, Dogtown, etc. Central West End is probably too high rise focused for your tastes--there are SFHs, but they are usually mansions not for rent. There are also plenty of SFHs in University City, at times walking distance to the University.

The more rural stuff I'm familiar with is outside of your 40 minute commute. Have some friends with land in the Washington, Union areas. Washington has a cute area right on the Missouri river. In terms of suburbs, Wildwood and Eureka stick out just because of the state parks nearby, and things seem a little more spread out there--probably pushing that 40 minute commute during rush hour.

There's a good number of people that take advantage of the WU Metro Pass. In MO, the train doesn't go very far into the burbs. WashU's campus is on the blue line. The Red and Blue line pretty much run concurrent through IL/the city until the Forest Park Debalievere station. Then, it splits into Blue/Red. If you want to live west of Forest Park, I'd suggest living on the Blue line, so you don't have to go too far on the train into the city, just to transfer and head back out west. Best stops with residential options nearby, heading west from WashU on blue line: Maplewood, Shrewsbury. The train goes pretty far into IL too--though I'm not familiar enough with IL to suggest great stops. Also good to know: the Brentwood stop has a gigantic free parking garage next to the station.

There are plenty of neighborhoods to stay away from. The Delmar divide is very real in the city.
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:49 AM
 
Location: St. Louis City
447 posts, read 765,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souperjen24 View Post
Thank you Frank and Mike for responding! Very helpful. Mike - you've spent some in the areas of the country I'm very familiar with, so you definitely know where I'm coming from (literally) and what I'm used to. It's comforting to hear you say that it's similar to an east-coast vibe. Also comforting to know that even though there aren't beaches, there's plenty of recreational opportunities in the water.

Mike, I do have a few additional questions.

- Apartment living is out for us... we need a yard. I think we could stand living in the city or right outside of the city if it was a neighborhood that wasn't completely high rises or condos. Does St. Louis have duplex/town home/brownstone type of neighborhoods? If so, which ones? I even saw there were some neighborhoods with little single family homes, such as in Richmond Heights. That would be good with us too! It sounds like the recommendation if Soulard might be good for us.

- I see one of the benefits of WU is they offer a free Metro pass. I tried researching the metro system a bit, but it's confusing. Is there any particular neighborhood(s) that are better in regards to that? It would be nice to use the free benefit instead of driving in and parking.

- Are there neighborhoods to definitely stay away from?

We wouldn't purchase a house right away... so I'm sure once we live there for a while and get a feel for things, we'd have a better idea of where we would want to live. In the meantime, we will be comparing areas that have decent rent prices and try to get some of what we want so we can be relatively content in our day-to-day life.

I know what you mean about meeting new friends as an adult. A benefit of living in the city would be that we'd have a larger community of people to pool from, more access to events and such that are close. I suppose if I get an interview, I should find a reliable realtor to take us around to certain places and neighborhoods to really get a feel for things.


I am not sure of your budget, but look into the 63104 zip code. It is my personal favorite. It includes Soulard, Benton Park, Lafayette Square and where I currently live, the Gate District (probably a few others, too). Fox Park is a pretty good neighborhood too, and at one point they had their own entry into the Pride Parade so I am pretty sure they have a pretty strong LGBT component. As another poster said, this is not currently on the metro link. There is a stop at Grand not far from my place, and many buses run up and down both Jefferson and Grand. I am crossing my fingers for that North / South line to materialize. Locals outside of the city proper do tend to be fearful of the public transit. It can be seen as something that moves hoodlum's into their neighborhoods. The 63104 zip code has a lot of town home style residences. My favorite street is Russell which runs west from Soulard. I am not sure of the amount of home for rent or for sale, though. Lafayette is another very nice street (I currently live on it) and there has been so much construction of SFH in my neighborhood on this very street. They are large townhome style and come with a large price tag. In the city, the southwest sections are also desirable (St Louis Hills comes to mind). I also personally love the gingerbread homes found around Southampton areas of the city. I also would look into Dogtown (just across from the Zoo) and the Hill (around Kingshighway and Southwest Ave). I realize many of these are off Metro train routes. I have always been an apartment dweller, however. I stumbled across both the apartments I have lived it. The best places are mostly kept secret it seems.


Driving and parking here is pretty easy, hence our love of the car. Under development is a expansion of the transit center at 14th and Clark, and that has a metro station, bus transfer, Amtrak and Greyhound. Living on any bus route that would get you there would be convenient. the Grove is rapidly expanding and many of the buildings are being renovated. I second the idea to stay north of Manchester. Southern areas still have a more industrial wharehouse feel along Vandeventer.


I agree to stay in the southern 1/2 of the city, and in general the central corridor is experiencing the most growth, downtown west to Clayton.


Finally, I also know some LGBT realtors. If you would like their names.


I have read some pretty good advice from other posters. Again, feel free to PM me if I can help further.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:24 AM
 
648 posts, read 1,044,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottiegal View Post
I'm from the Chicago area and we (my husband, son and I) are moving to St. Louis probably this summer. He works there now and it's a heck of a commute! Traveling through Illinois outside the Chicago area is very very very different, and I would venture to say alternative lifestyles are a novelity. I would recommend sticking to St. Louis or surrounding area. We are looking into st Charles. We are looking for a more laid back family friendly place. The Katy trail looks very nice and if you are into hiking and such, that is something you may wish to discover.

Towers grove is suppose to be really happening now with lots of shops, bars etc. as mentioned the soulard is nice and don't forget central west end.

Think about visiting, from our visits St. Louis is a very charming city, easy to get around and it's true you are about 20 minutes away from most places.
Warning: the above answer seems to have been exhumed from a long dead Compuserve bulletin board of 25 years ago...

"Alternative lifestyle!?" Excuse me, that phrase died out at least 15 years ago. It was insulting then and it's insulting NOW.

The LGBT community is PEOPLE, not a novelty (corrected your spelling - you're welcome). There are LGBT folks EVERYWHERE, including your community. We are part of the fabric of this nation of many nationalities, religions and personal identities.

OK, with that off my chest, I will actually contribute to this thread by my real life experience of living in the STL area as an out lesbian for 24 years.

Now here are a few caveats:
1) We are a female couple. Generally speaking, female couples seem to experience less harassment than male couples for obvious reasons: women in society are viewed as less threatening to the social order, hence, lesbian couples are less threatening BUT, what seems to get some people's knickers in a twist is when folks present as gender non-conforming, i.e.; butch women or effeminate men.

2) We are on the higher end of the income and and education scale. I am a teacher and my wife is a physician. We live in a private neighborhood in University City surrounded by other professional folks: college professors, lawyers, bankers, doctors, etc. They have been welcoming from the very first day we moved in. Mostly liberal politically, although the Jewish guy next door voted for tRump... but his Catholic wife voted for Hillary!

3) We present as gender conforming, not because we feel we have to, we just are.

4) We are Caucasian.

I completely accept that my wife and I are near the top of the social food chain and our mostly positive experience as a lesbian couple in STL is based upon that privilege.

Since you'll be working at Wash U, possibly consider University City. U City is a gorgeous part of the STL area!!! Your commute time would be essentially nada. Maybe you could bike or walk to work!!! How cool would that be!?

It wouldn't take you long to drive from U City to pursue your outdoor activities.

You might consider renting for a year to get to know the area and decide whether the Illinois side might work for you: more acreage, closer to work vs. Missouri side: driving through miles of suburban sprawl to get to more acreage.
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