U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-08-2017, 12:34 PM
 
58,133 posts, read 50,680,066 times
Reputation: 17793

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Why should we pay tribute to anyone pre-civil war who owned slaves, including founding fathers? Why should we pay tribute to Lincoln whose solution was to send freed black slaves back to Africa? Almost everyone historically will come up short when judged by the lens of what is acceptable today.
Comparing the founding fathers to the Confederates is a a false equivalency argument. The founding fathers owned slaves, yes. However, they did not fight for a cause that was explicitly about keeping slavery. The American Revolution, which help found this country, was not the same as the Confederate fight. The American Revolution had to do with colonies not getting fair representation. Keeping slavery had nothing to do with it. The founding fathers just so happen to own slaves. The Confederacy was explicitly and clearly about keeping and expanding slavery. The cause centered around it. The South wanted to fight against the rest of the country because it so badly wanted to keep slavery. The American Revolution is a noble cause which facilitated the founding of this country. The Confederates nearly ripped this country apart and their cause was a last ditch effort to keep slavery. Major differences here.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-08-2017, 07:19 PM
 
208 posts, read 205,895 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
An "example" of a black guy getting an advantage...
I must first correct you. Here's my exact quote: "Blacks in the US are actually the most accommodated group of people in the world." In that regard, we need go no further than the topic of this very thread to find an example. The removal of a monument and flag simply to appease the sensibilities of blacks is an example of this accommodation to which I refer.

Just for fun, I listed a smattering of the myriad of black-centric organizations and groups. I provided links in case you want a good laugh.Quite hilarious. And of course, there are more. I could continue to list links to other such black-centric organizations and groups. You can do your own research, but I'm sure you get the point. These links are included not only for their comedic value but also to demonstrate just how pervasive these accommodations go into every reach of society. Of course, I could get into such things as diversity quotas, the flotilla of affirmative action programs, Orwellian hate speech & hate crime laws, inclusion programs, race-conscious policies in college admissions and corporate hiring, black owned business grants and loans, Evergreen State College, the dumbing down of civil servant tests, so-called "disadvantage" programs, endless disguised subsidies (see "disadvantaged"), African American Studies, Black history month, so-called fair housing laws, EEOC, "social justice" initiatives, block busting, bussing, OJ Simpson, and on and on and on. But the point is proven. Blacks in the US are indeed the most accommodated group of people in the world.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2017, 08:23 PM
 
3,713 posts, read 2,685,975 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
I must first correct you. Here's my exact quote: "Blacks in the US are actually the most accommodated group of people in the world." In that regard, we need go no further than the topic of this very thread to find an example. The removal of a monument and flag simply to appease the sensibilities of blacks is an example of this accommodation to which I refer.

Just for fun, I listed a smattering of the myriad of black-centric organizations and groups. I provided links in case you want a good laugh.Quite hilarious. And of course, there are more. I could continue to list links to other such black-centric organizations and groups. You can do your own research, but I'm sure you get the point. These links are included not only for their comedic value but also to demonstrate just how pervasive these accommodations go into every reach of society. Of course, I could get into such things as diversity quotas, the flotilla of affirmative action programs, Orwellian hate speech & hate crime laws, inclusion programs, race-conscious policies in college admissions and corporate hiring, black owned business grants and loans, Evergreen State College, the dumbing down of civil servant tests, so-called "disadvantage" programs, endless disguised subsidies (see "disadvantaged"), African American Studies, Black history month, so-called fair housing laws, EEOC, "social justice" initiatives, block busting, bussing, OJ Simpson, and on and on and on. But the point is proven. Blacks in the US are indeed the most accommodated group of people in the world.
This is exactly the sort of stuff I was saying didn't matter at all. Where's the data that blacks have higher incomes, get employed at disproportionately higher rates, get acquitted of crimes more often, etc.? This is like saying "the existence of a club for expats from Montenegro proves they're the most powerful country in the world".
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2017, 11:51 PM
 
427 posts, read 1,114,090 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
This is exactly the sort of stuff I was saying didn't matter at all. Where's the data that blacks have higher incomes, get employed at disproportionately higher rates, get acquitted of crimes more often, etc.? This is like saying "the existence of a club for expats from Montenegro proves they're the most powerful country in the world".
They have lower incomes because they're lazier, less educated and less intelligent than their White, Asian and Middle Eastern counterparts that dominate economics. If this weren't true, then they would have risen to the top by now and refuted that sentiment. We live under a capitalistic system. The cream rises to the top. If you're the best at what you do, you are rewarded.

Are Lebron James and Kevin Durant underpaid or are they the best in the world at what they do and paid handsomely for it? Every black person can't be a basketball player. So, guess what? That's where the laziness, less education and less intelligence comes into play.

A Black man or woman has just as much right to apply to any major university they want to as any other race. Often times, they are even more accommodated than other races. Some colleges have specific scholarships and grants that can only be awarded to Black people. It doesn't matter if someone from another race has better grades, a higher SAT/ACT score or participated in more extracurricular activities, only a Black person can receive the scholarship. This coupled with other state and federal aid that is available even if you are flat broke. Pell grants and the like.

As if that's not already enough, there are still other paths to attain education. The school district that I went to high school in had a program where as long as you got a C average or better in high school and didn't miss more than X number of days of school(truancy) and didn't get into any trouble(fights, drugs, suspensions) you got free tuition to any state community college to get your associates degree.

I happen to know of several people of all races that used that program. One of them was a male Black friend of mine that was dirt poor. He lived in state funded housing, got food stamps, free school lunch, had like literally two outfits. Sometimes he would wear the same shirt to school the entire week. He used that college program I mentioned and got a job in finance. Now he makes like $70K a year and lives in a nice suburb.

Another Indian girl I know of used that program and went on to get a PhD. Now she is a psychologist with her own practice and makes six figures. So my point is the program works. If those two examples that I personally know can make it, why can't your average Black person? This is where some speculation comes into play, but there are only three reasons. Not meeting the school attendance requirement(laziness). Not meeting the grade requirement of at least a C average(less intelligent). Finally, not meeting the good conduct requirement, meaning they got into a fight, got caught with drugs or did something else that caused them to get suspended or expelled from school.

About Blacks being less likely to be acquitted for crimes, very true. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Blacks commit violent crimes(murder, assault, armed robbery) at disproportionately higher rates than any other race per FBI crime data, right? I mean people that are on trial for murder or robbing a bank are usually more likely to get off than say someone that did a petty crime, right? I'm sure that doesn't have anything to do with it.

The opportunities are there and have been for at bare minimum two generations now, one could argue longer. Some chose to take them, the likes of Dr. Cornel West, Lester Holt, Oprah, Lebron James, President Obama etc. Some choose not to take them, the likes of your typical inner city Black that skips school, doesn't care about grades or doing homework, gets into trouble either getting suspended/expelled from school or worse, jail/prison and then ends up broke, destitute and vile with no options, wondering why they can't get anywhere in life. You only get out what you put in. The world isn't rigged against Blacks, despite what their lobbies would have you believe, NAACP and the like. It's rigged against lazy, unintelligent, criminally minded Blacks. If it were rigged against all black, Oprah and Obama wouldn't be successful. End of story.

Now this is the trillion dollar question. How do you get Black youths to be responsible, not lazy, more well read, more intelligent in general, less criminally minded and less violent in general? Analyze the culture and see what the correlations are. There's your answer. Now to all the Blacks out there or any race for that matter, whom are successful, that have degrees, well paying jobs or work long hours at lesser jobs to make it work out, that stay out of trouble and are generally responsible in life, pat yourselves on the back.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2017, 04:30 AM
 
3,713 posts, read 2,685,975 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx456 View Post
They have lower incomes because they're lazier, less educated and less intelligent than their White, Asian and Middle Eastern counterparts that dominate economics. If this weren't true, then they would have risen to the top by now and refuted that sentiment. We live under a capitalistic system. The cream rises to the top. If you're the best at what you do, you are rewarded.
Correlation does not equal causation. There's no credible research which supports the conclusion that some inherent fault of blacks impacts their societal outcomes, and substantial research showing that institutions are racially biased against them. You're winning a footrace against a one-legged man and claiming the race was rigged against you because the other guy was the only one provided with crutches.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2017, 08:28 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 691,515 times
Reputation: 812
Give a man a foodstamps and you feed him for a day; teach a man to apply for foodstamps and you feed him for a lifetime. But if the man does not want to learn or put in the effort to get foodstamps, then that's on him.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2017, 10:43 AM
 
3,713 posts, read 2,685,975 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1grin_g0 View Post
Give a man a foodstamps and you feed him for a day; teach a man to apply for foodstamps and you feed him for a lifetime. But if the man does not want to learn or put in the effort to get foodstamps, then that's on him.
Food stamps benefit recipients:
  • Children: 45%
  • Working adults: 31%
  • Disabled non-elderly: 10%
  • Elderly: 9%
  • Unemployed able-bodied adults: 3-5%
  • Length of time unemployed able-bodied adults spend on food stamps: usually just a few months

The situation in your parable is basically a right-wing myth with no basis in the real world.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2017, 10:45 AM
 
208 posts, read 205,895 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
This is exactly the sort of stuff I was saying didn't matter at all.
Yes, I'm sure. Quite predictably.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2017, 10:56 AM
 
3,713 posts, read 2,685,975 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
Yes, I'm sure. Quite predictably.
In the mid-19th century there were various groups dedicated to the liberation of black people, and few formed for the cause of white liberation. Clearly, blacks were the most coddled demographic of the antebellum south.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2017, 11:14 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 691,515 times
Reputation: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Food stamps benefit recipients:
  • Children: 45%
  • Working adults: 31%
  • Disabled non-elderly: 10%
  • Elderly: 9%
  • Unemployed able-bodied adults: 3-5%
  • Length of time unemployed able-bodied adults spend on food stamps: usually just a few months

The situation in your parable is basically a right-wing myth with no basis in the real world.
You managed to miss the entire point, which to be honest is not surprising. I like how you dismissed it with the whole right wing conspiracy thing though, that was cute.

Let me help you. There are plenty of social welfare programs available (free food, healthcare, education, and housing), but if you don't put in the effort to pursue the freebies, then it is nobody's fault but your own.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42 AM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top