St. Louis to remove Confederate monument (Jackson, Clinton: low crime, employment, vs)

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

He's odd to figure out as he is all over the place when it comes to stuff and the people he backs. Makes me wonder if he backs it simply for more personal gains rather than the whole party in general.

That seems like an extremely safe assumption to me.

[SunGrins]

We are talking about a forgotten hunk of stone and metal that nobody knew was there. Enjoy your park.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

He's odd to figure out as he is all over the place when it comes to stuff and the people he backs. Makes me wonder if he backs it simply for more personal gains rather than the whole party in general.

He lives in the CWE. He's probably a corporatist/globalist more than anything and the business/professional elite are receptive to idea of merger. For one major thing, by simply spreading the city's out of control crime across a much larger population, St. Louis is no longer lumped in with Detroit, Newark etc. in the most dangerous city lists. Second, they are receptive to consolidating municipalities at least at some level, although it's one thing to agree that some of the tiny ones should be consolidated in the poorer areas of the county and then think if you are a CEO living in Frontenac or Town & Country or Ladue that this might impact you. I doubt they want that level of consolidation.

[FrankMiller]

New thread to discuss merger stuff:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/st-lo...n-mergers.html

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by SouthCitySam

Uh, no. Again, you are misrepresenting. I presented a hypothetical. A hypothetical is a "what-if" scenario. A hypothetical is a method to frame an argument in a debate.

So apparently hypotheticals are now considered "hate speech".
"A Marxist system is recognized by the fact that it criminalizes political opponents."~ Solzhenitsyn


This is the answer I expected.

I asked you what you wanted. That is when you brought up said "hypothetical" question. Why else would you bring that to the table other than you wanting me, or people like me out of the USA?

And so what if it's the answer you expected? You have my answer. I do what I want to do, period. The days of "blacks need to know their place" are over. Time to move on.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

He lives in the CWE. He's probably a corporatist/globalist more than anything and the business/professional elite are receptive to idea of merger. For one major thing, by simply spreading the city's out of control crime across a much larger population, St. Louis is no longer lumped in with Detroit, Newark etc. in the most dangerous city lists. Second, they are receptive to consolidating municipalities at least at some level, although it's one thing to agree that some of the tiny ones should be consolidated in the poorer areas of the county and then think if you are a CEO living in Frontenac or Town & Country or Ladue that this might impact you. I doubt they want that level of consolidation.

Aka a moderate type Republican. We actually got a lot of them here in Florida because they come from the northeast and are more big corporate and more moderate leaning on social issues compared to most of Missouri's rural based Republicans that are far more to the right than what we got here in Florida. The laws introduced in Missouri now are a lot more to the right than here in Florida. Here in FL the lawmakers are focused more on fiscal stuff and environmental stuff while in Missouri they're more focused on expanding your right to bear arms freedoms, abortion, and like last year the transgender bill. Another special session being called in MO to talk about abortion.

This whole globalist BS is what is causing problems. From exporting millions of jobs to third world countries to the terrorist problems in Europe.

My college business textbooks are big on global economy and think it's a good thing to have Hb1 Visas and such.

The whole state leg. here in FL is like one big corporation driven by special interest. Missouri seems to be more grassroots driven. Like permit less carry in Missouri was a big grassroots efforts by the citizens, Not the NRA. The NRA did hardly any lobbying for it until the last couple weeks of the session when it looked like it would have a chance to pass.

Here in FL there is a lot of apathy for politics. People don't get involved.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by SunGrins

We are talking about a forgotten hunk of stone and metal that nobody knew was there. Enjoy your park.

I say put it in a museum. Just don't put it out in a place of honor, especially in public areas.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

I don't have time to listen to it right now but there is no way Stenger can support a merger when most in the county don't want it even many people who are liberals do not want the merger because it would just lead to bleeding money and eventually higher property taxes and such to prop up St. Louis city. St. Louis county while it is a Democrat county it's not one party like St. Louis city and does contain a number of potential swing votes that if pissed off could tilt the county board to the Republicans possibly give them a Republican executive. Stenger won by a couple thousand votes. If he goes public and becomes vocal about a merger he would probably lose re-election by at least 5 points.

A merger would also drag the rest of the state into it because of the cost and headaches of a merger and then when the county begins to bleed money trying to prop up St. Louis City they will then go to the state lawmakers wanting higher taxes and for the rest of the state to pay for it.

The city of St. Louis is a great example of failures of liberal policy when they have total dominance. It's not a race issue because Democrats have whites and blacks holding offices in the city and the whole party is a total failure to the residents. It further hurts the city because the productive people in the city and ones who make money and pay the most on payroll and property taxes ended up fleeing the city and now you have a smaller tax base who is on the low end on the income scale so you get less taxes from them.

I don't see it happening. For one the voters in the county wouldn't approve it unless you got some kind of massive voter fraud hack or something, and there is no chance the lawmakers in Jefferson City would even consider merging the city into the county unless democrats got control of the assembly and there is no chance they will ever come close to controlling the general assembly again in Jefferson City.

Memphis, TN and New Orleans, LA are two very similar cities to St. Louis and both have a lot of similar problems that St. Louis has with their Democrat dominance. Both have big crime issues as well.

I could see the County becoming a eventual Dump if the merger took place and people then flee to Jefferson, Franklin and Washington Counties. Which actually those counties are already growing as people are moving further out.

If St. Louis' issues are the "failures" of Democrats, you really need to consider these things. Seattle is a diehard Democratic city. That city is in markedly better shape than St. Louis. Even on its worst times it has not been as bad as St. Louis. Seattle is gaining population and has a low unemployment rate. St. Louis also has a low murder rate. St. Louis is the murder capital of the USA, and has been bleeding population since the 1960s. Denver is a liberal bastion where marijuana is legal. Denver is in much better shape than St. Louis. Most major cities are run by Democrats. However, many of those cities aren't in nearly as dire of shape as Boston. Madison,Wisconsin, capital and 2nd largest city in Wisconsin. Madison is very Democratic. It is as Democratic, if not more so, as Milwaukee,Wisconsin. Guess which city has the dire problems with blight, poverty, and violence? Milwaukee.

Now another example. Lincoln, Nebraska vs Omaha, Nebraska. Lincoln is basically a liberal college city, similar to Madison. Omaha has had Democratic mayors as well as Republican mayors. Blacks in Omaha are doing as badly as Blacks in Milwaukee. While Omaha is not as blighted as Milwaukee, Blacks do quite bad there compared to everyone else. And Lincoln is not blighted like St. Louis.

Memphis and New Orleans have alot of blight and problems. Boston once did. Boston cleaned up alot and is in far better shape than Memphis or New Orleans.

[MUTGR]

Most of the pro-removal commentators have said it belongs in a museum. Guess what: a civil war museum in St. Louis County wants it, but that's not good enough for Mayor Krewson:

City leaders, Missouri Civil War Museum at odds over who owns Confederate monument in Forest Park | Political Fix | stltoday.com

"If you're taking it down because you consider it offensive ... you don't want it to go to place where it would be celebrated," Addo said on Wednesday.

Trout said he has no hostility toward the city, but the museum wouldn't allow St. Louis leaders to have influence over how the memorial would be featured down the line.

"There is not a museum in this world that doesn't have some sort of controversial, divisive item or artifact in their collections. That's part of preserving history," he said. "The moment we have governments telling museums how and why they can do things, we're in trouble."

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

If St. Louis' issues are the "failures" of Democrats, you really need to consider these things. Seattle is a diehard Democratic city. That city is in markedly better shape than St. Louis. Even on its worst times it has not been as bad as St. Louis. Seattle is gaining population and has a low unemployment rate. St. Louis also has a low murder rate. St. Louis is the murder capital of the USA, and has been bleeding population since the 1960s. Denver is a liberal bastion where marijuana is legal. Denver is in much better shape than St. Louis. Most major cities are run by Democrats. However, many of those cities aren't in nearly as dire of shape as Boston. Madison,Wisconsin, capital and 2nd largest city in Wisconsin. Madison is very Democratic. It is as Democratic, if not more so, as Milwaukee,Wisconsin. Guess which city has the dire problems with blight, poverty, and violence? Milwaukee.

Now another example. Lincoln, Nebraska vs Omaha, Nebraska. Lincoln is basically a liberal college city, similar to Madison. Omaha has had Democratic mayors as well as Republican mayors. Blacks in Omaha are doing as badly as Blacks in Milwaukee. While Omaha is not as blighted as Milwaukee, Blacks do quite bad there compared to everyone else. And Lincoln is not blighted like St. Louis.

Memphis and New Orleans have alot of blight and problems. Boston once did. Boston cleaned up alot and is in far better shape than Memphis or New Orleans.

Also the democrat controlled cities such as Memphis, Atlanta, St. Louis and New Orleans which all have crime issues when compared to the northwest what is the incarceration rate and hate to say it but the cities in the border south and south such as St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, Atlanta, New Orleans all have high makeups of blacks which sadly statistically have higher violent crime rates and are less affluent than Denver and the northwest.