St. Louis to remove Confederate monument (Houston, Miller: lawyer, storage, lawsuit)

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

When it comes to cities, we are only talking about the city limits. If we want to talk about metros, then we have to say explicitly metros. Comparing city to city is what we were currently on.

If you want to discuss statistical comparisons you have to use statistically consistent areas, otherwise you might as well be comparing the city to the moon.

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

If you want to discuss statistical comparisons you have to use statistically consistent areas, otherwise you might as well be comparing the city to the moon.

Exactly my point. St. Louis City is only 66 square miles with a population density of 5099/sq mi. In comparison, Atlanta (city) is considered 134 square miles with a density of just 3360/sq mi... because of the included suburbs.

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

St. Louis metropolitan area has poverty in the suburbs as well. You can find it in Florissant, Ferguson, East St. Louis

Florissant doesn't belong in the same sentence as East St. Louis. Per capita, Florissant is still one of the safest cities of its size in Missouri. Yes, it is working class. No, it isn't perfect. But it also isn't impoverished by a long shot. A few areas of St. Charles County and South County are rougher than Flo. Florissant and Hazelwood are still the most solid areas in NoCo.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

Florissant doesn't belong in the same sentence as East St. Louis. Per capita, Florissant is still one of the safest cities of its size in Missouri. Yes, it is working class. No, it isn't perfect. But it also isn't impoverished by a long shot. A few areas of St. Charles County and South County are rougher than Flo. Florissant and Hazelwood are still the most solid areas in NoCo.

Most of Ferguson is also fine.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

Yes but what I meant is that it is not fair to compare St. Louis city crime stats with places like Atlanta because St. Louis, being 'locked in' by the city/county separation means that there are no suburbs, just the 'inner city core'.

When you look at Atlanta's crime stats, because they've been able to incorporate more area into their city limits over the years (inclusive of suburbs, which, almost everywhere in the U.S are safer than inner cities) it has brought their crime per capita rate down.

As for African Americans doing poorly in St. Louis City, yes, unfortunately that is the case for many.

However, in St. Louis County (not far from the city limits) is Pasadena Hills, which with a median household income of over $91,000, is amongst the top 20 wealthiest predominantly African American cities in the U.S.

Like many other cities, many successful African Americans in St. Louis moved to the suburbs following desegregation and the civil rights movement.

I've been through some very dicey areas of Atlanta. It is not any better than St. Louis. I know many people who do not feel that safe there. The traffic there is simply a nightmare as well. Couldn't pay me 500k a year to live in that region. Horrific. Here in my sleepy area of FL I've met people who have lived there and moved away from that place.

That could be true. Wasn't St. Louis one of the first major cities to pass segregation housing ordinances that blacks couldn't buy in south city? Years later the courts ruled it as unconstitutional though ordinances passed by cities.

Could be why blacks are spreading out in the Atlanta area too. Wasn't that too a heavily segregated housing city too?

One thing for certain it's a very heavily liberal voting area those handful of counties in Atlanta. that it now has more influence on presidential elections in GA and the numbers. More so than the two counties of stl county and City as the entire state now heavily out dominates it in presidential elections.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Wasn't St. Louis one of the first major cities to pass segregation housing ordinances that blacks couldn't buy in south city? Years later the courts ruled it as unconstitutional though ordinances passed by cities.

I don't know about ordinances, but a very significant Supreme Court case involving restrictive covenants used to keep blacks out of neighborhoods was out of St. Louis:

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/civilrights/mo1.htm

The house is still there:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/46...6!4d-90.245017

The area is a disaster.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Most of Ferguson is also fine.

I am not one who is easily irritated about people downtalking St. Louis but when people use the name Ferguson in the same sentence as Gary Indiana or East St. Louis, I usually give them a peice of my mind especially if they are not from here.

[glamatomic]

I also agree that most of Ferguson is fine. My children usually go there at least once a week for something. If it was comparable at all to ESTL, there is no way we would be doing that. A lot of Ferguson is lovely.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

I don't know about ordinances, but a very significant Supreme Court case involving restrictive covenants used to keep blacks out of neighborhoods was out of St. Louis:

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/civilrights/mo1.htm

The house is still there:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/46...6!4d-90.245017

The area is a disaster.

That might be one of the court cases. I think you're correct!

Another court case of interest was the segregation in Missouri state universities, Mizzou also had a court case.

While Missouri is a border state, a few significant federal court cases have came out of MO regarding segregation. Another example of how Missouri is an outlier compared to the rest of the Midwest.

Even St. Louis today being a lower Midwest city it still has some traces of southern left in it.

[glamatomic]

There was also the lawsuit that went to the supreme court against Alfred H. Mayer Co. back in the 60s- a major St. Louis home builder who refused to sell to a biracial couple.

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