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Old 05-24-2017, 02:07 AM
 
3,114 posts, read 3,343,178 times
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It is sad, sad because all it is is another mark of cheap politics. Just another example of history being written by the "winners". There were two sides to that war and both sides should be allowed to have remembrances.

Memorials are just that - memorials, remembrances of important happenings in our history. If we are to learn and remember our history, we need to acknowledge both sides of the issues. We can't hide half the war in a dark closet and then explain why we fought it. Our grandchildren would be asking "but who were they?"

I have seen that monument and it is beautiful, beautiful in its simplicity. And the message carved onto it is inspiring to read. It should not be torn down. We should be able to hold our heads up and say "Not here". We don't have to do something just because someone else did it somewhere else.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:23 AM
 
3,114 posts, read 3,343,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil View Post
Because we don't memorialize the flag of any other country with which we've waged war.

I personally don't care if it stays. It doesn't affect me.

However, some elements of the Confederate message are not admirable in modern times. You don't see Germans memorializing the Third Reich.



That's ridiculous. Most state flags are essentially meaningless, being created long after the war. We fly the American flag because, surprise, we are all Americans.

1. It affects you more than you realize.

2. Some elements of Germany's message in WW I were not admirable. We "won" and punished them with over-bearing retributions. We later had WW II.

3. And leave it out in all kinds of damaging weather, night and day. Time was -- but that's another topic. I'll drop it and say this: We also honor and fly flags of other countries here. Down near West County Center, there is an insurance company that is owned by a Canadian company. Whenever the CEOs or owners come to St Louis, the Canadian flag is flown. And, of course, all embassies are allowed to fly their own flags. Gracious! We even fly the flags of sports teams.

Pity the poor people who are not able to look at both sides of an issue without becoming prejudicial.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:51 AM
 
3,709 posts, read 2,677,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel W View Post
2. Some elements of Germany's message in WW I were not admirable. We "won" and punished them with over-bearing retributions. We later had WW II.
On the other hand, the US didn't punish the former Confederate states enough, and you had Jim Crow laws, private prisons, Lost Cause, KKK, and the Neo-Confederate Republican party. So, there's risks both ways.

The Confederacy was founded entirely on defending white supremacy and black enslavement, let's not honor them with statues.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:10 AM
 
6,052 posts, read 6,887,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmiller View Post
on the other hand, the us didn't punish the former confederate states enough, and you had jim crow laws, private prisons, lost cause, kkk, and the neo-confederate republican party. So, there's risks both ways.

The confederacy was founded entirely on defending white supremacy and black enslavement, let's not honor them with statues.
right!
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:27 PM
 
1,721 posts, read 1,182,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
On the other hand, the US didn't punish the former Confederate states enough, and you had Jim Crow laws, private prisons, Lost Cause, KKK, and the Neo-Confederate Republican party. So, there's risks both ways.

The Confederacy was founded entirely on defending white supremacy and black enslavement, let's not honor them with statues.
They were punished pretty bad. Missouri was devastated by the war and at the state level suffered pretty severe reconstruction until 1876 when that stupid Drake Constitution was tossed and the southern democrat faction got back into power in Missouri who were deposed during the civil war.

After that. most of Missouri governors up until the early 1930s were democrats with many of them being born in KY, TN.

Southern Missouri people claim is racist, especially the Ozarks because of the Klan activity and such but that's BS.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:36 PM
 
Location: STL area
1,697 posts, read 823,409 times
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A museum is a better place for it. Remember negative history so that you don't repeat it. Don't celebrate and commemorate it.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Edinburgh,Scotland
380 posts, read 227,462 times
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"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." ― George Orwell, 1984[/quote]

Sound familiar?
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:49 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,302 posts, read 5,969,074 times
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Krewson has vowed to have a plan to remove it in 30 days:

As controversy builds over Confederate Memorial, Krewson vows removal plan within three weeks | Political Fix | stltoday.com

Too bad the city doesn't want to pay for it:


"Both Krewson and her predecessor, former Mayor Francis Slay, have said the statue should be moved, but the cost of moving the 40-ton structure has exacerbated the political arguments around it — especially since there seems to be little appetite for discussing any use of city money to do it."

If it's that important, better find the money and get it done.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:55 PM
 
3,114 posts, read 3,343,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FickleManHYPEWFDSS View Post
Are you saying that the rebels did not write their own history after the war? Of course they did.

Traitors who fought for the slave power should not be memorialized.
I am sure they did. No doubt about it. What I am trying to say - perhaps clumsily - is that we need to write history so the reader knows the entire story, not just one side. It will still be slanted but fully exposed. There is a new style of written history around now. It is called Social History. There's much more to it than this type of thing but it's goal is to always reveal everything from every angle.

I am not trying to defend the South. I am saying don't destroy it by getting rid of its memorials. Let it save its pride and move on to something better. And every time I type all this our record with the Native Americans keeps popping in my head.

Best stop here. Just appreciated getting to say my piece.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:06 PM
 
54 posts, read 195,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhead View Post
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." ― George Orwell, 1984
Sound familiar?[/quote]


With that logic we should put back up the posters that advocate rounding up the hook-nosed, scheming jews. Because, it's history, right?

This inscription on the confederate statue is glorifying the "just cause" of slavery. That's pretty despicable no matter how beautiful the craftsmanship of the actual statue is.
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