St. Louis to remove Confederate monument (Clayton, Jackson: homes, to buy, luxury)

[FrankMiller]

Mmm, yes, giving speeches to banks is the same thing as putting them in charge of the SEC.

[1grin_g0]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Mmm, yes, giving speeches to banks is the same thing as putting them in charge of the SEC.

You're right, it's not the same. Taking money from big banks is much worse than appointing an experienced executive.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by 1grin_g0

You're right, it's not the same. Taking money from big banks is much worse than appointing an experienced executive.

Trump has taken far more money from big banks than Hillary could ever dream of. But Trump did it by borrowing money for businesses he ran into the ground, so I guess that's much less morally repugnant than talking.

[green_mariner]

Back to the topic. We know that the desire to keep slavery was the main reason why the South wanted secession. Any basic lesson in U.S history can teach you this. Scholars will tell you this. Words from the mouths of southerners who were alive in those days will tell you that. The Articles of Secession will tell you that. Do not go into the false equivalency phrase "the Founding Fathers owned slaves". Do not try that. The reason for the American Revolution was explicitly about taxation without representation. The desire to keep slavery had nothing to do with it. For the Civil War, the South's reasons for secession had slavery being the majority of what they were going for. Abraham Lincoln not being keen on freeing the slaves does not refute how those in the South felt about Lincoln.

Given all of that, there is no reason to honor Confederates. There is no reason to fly the Confederate flag anywhere in the USA. I base this on FACTS, historical facts. The Confederate cause is not worthy of any honor. We remember the Confederates, but given them places of honor? No.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Back to the topic. We know that the desire to keep slavery was the main reason why the South wanted secession. Any basic lesson in U.S history can teach you this. Scholars will tell you this. Words from the mouths of southerners who were alive in those days will tell you that. The Articles of Secession will tell you that. Do not go into the false equivalency phrase "the Founding Fathers owned slaves". Do not try that. The reason for the American Revolution was explicitly about taxation without representation. The desire to keep slavery had nothing to do with it. For the Civil War, the South's reasons for secession had slavery being the majority of what they were going for. Abraham Lincoln not being keen on freeing the slaves does not refute how those in the South felt about Lincoln.

Given all of that, there is no reason to honor Confederates. There is no reason to fly the Confederate flag anywhere in the USA. I base this on FACTS, historical facts. The Confederate cause is not worthy of any honor. We remember the Confederates, but given them places of honor? No.

This is the best response to this issue. Thanks.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

This is the best response to this issue. Thanks.

No problem. We've butted heads before on somethings, but I can say we're on the same page with this topic. No one has come up with a good reason to justify honoring those who fought on behalf of a cause related to preserving the antebellum institution of slavery. The only thing anyone can come up with is

1) False equivalency
2) "Southern heritage". Notice how no southern Blacks(and southerners make up the majority of Blacks in the USA) claim the Confederate flag as southern heritage.
3) It's history.

No one can come up with any kind of concreate argument.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

No problem. We've butted heads before on somethings, but I can say we're on the same page with this topic. No one has come up with a good reason to justify honoring those who fought on behalf of a cause related to preserving the antebellum institution of slavery. The only thing anyone can come up with is

1) False equivalency
2) "Southern heritage". Notice how no southern Blacks(and southerners make up the majority of Blacks in the USA) claim the Confederate flag as southern heritage.
3) It's history.

No one can come up with any kind of concreate argument.

That is true. The majority of the supporters are older Whites. Many don't identify as racist but will tell you they are racist by conversation.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

That is true. The majority of the supporters are older Whites. Many don't identify as racist but will tell you they are racist by conversation.

I've had such experiences in high school. I went to high school in Paulding County. It's part of metro Atlanta, but it functions more like Alabama(the Alabama borderg is 50 minutes drive from where I went to high school). I went to school with many students who wore Dixie Outfitter t-shirts. Many of the students would say things like "it's southern heritage" or "heritage not hate".

To me, it was common sense not to wear a Confederate flag t-shirt. It made sense to me. The South wanted slavery so bad that it was willing to secede. This is what I see in the history books. This was common sense to me. However, to many students I went to high school with, it was like dealing with brats.

And yes, many of the persons who supported the Confederate flag were themselves racists. For some, they were very open with it. I will start with the number of times I've been called the "N" word. Years later I'm finding out through facebook how many of said persons were covert with racially motivated opinions.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

That is true. The majority of the supporters are older Whites. Many don't identify as racist but will tell you they are racist by conversation.

Btw what do you think about 1976 when 43 percent of Missourians voted to KEEP school segregation in the state's constitution when it was put on the ballots to be repealed?

Why did MO lawmakers wait so long to pass a bill to get it put on the ballots for voters to remove school segregation? Why not in the 60s? granted if 43 percent voted to keep it in the constitution if it was put on the ballots in lets say 1965 it might have had a tougher time passing since the civil rights act just passed and people probably held different views.

Can you imagine if it failed how embarrassing it would be to the state?

I guess it was sorta like gay marriage. Missouri voters overwhelmingly banned it in 2004 by a large margin and so did many other states. However, the last couple years despite that most have moderated their views and are accepting to it now since the courts struck it down.

After the civil rights act passed over time people began to accept it and move on.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

That is true. The majority of the supporters are older Whites. Many don't identify as racist but will tell you they are racist by conversation.

How do you flush out these older racist whites by their conversation? Are there trigger words? Is it a way of speaking? What clues are there on which you make these judgments?