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Old 05-27-2017, 07:45 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 689,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Fair game, but off topic.
Well, if motivations serve as justification for the removal of a Confederate memorial site, then I think the Union's motivations are relevant to the conversation.
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Old 05-27-2017, 07:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Fair game, but off topic.
Then why did you bring it up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
The war did in fact start over slavery.
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Old 05-27-2017, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
Then why did you bring it up?
The war started over slavery, specifically the Confederate states forming and starting a war to preserve slavery, which is the topic of the thread. The Union fighting for abolition vs preservation of unity has nothing to do with the topic. That's like defending a murderer with "the victim was ugly"; it's basically a non sequitur.
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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[quote=FrankMiller;48294150It is not the Union's motivations that are on trial today.
[/QUOTE]

No one's motivations should be "on trial" today. But the topic was brought up, so it's relevant.
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
The war started over slavery...which is the topic of the thread.
But you said the motivation of the Union for engaging in war with the South was off topic. Now you're saying it's the topic of the thread? Great! Glad that's cleared up.
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:07 PM
 
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The Confederacy was founded and started the war over slavery. The war was started over slavery. Notice that the Union doesn't enter into that statement at any point?
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
The war did in fact start over slavery. More specifically, the right of states to institute slavery (but not the right of other states to free slaves within their borders, a practice which greatly antagonized the South at various times before the war).



6 Civil War Myths, Busted
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union
The war started over the North, which controlled congress, pushing through a huge tariff on southern goods. The South then tried to negotiate to sell goods directly to other countries and the North stopped that too. The war started as an economic war. And Lincoln, if you bother to read his early writing, had no interest in eliminating slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation, only effected the 7 states that had seceded to that point, which means it would have been unconstitutional. Lincoln was willing to let the rest of the states keep their slaves. And slavery did not start In the South. The first slaves in the colonies were in Massachusetts.
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
The war was started over slavery.
You're simply wrong. The civil war was fought over economic, power, and control issues built up over the years between the federal government and the southern states. If the south was successful in its bid to separate and form its own independent country, the economy of the remaining states would have suffered, western expansion would have severely faltered, and the viability of the central government authority going forward would be in jeopardy. The war wasn't fought over the moral question of the slavery of Africans. The president himself stated clearly his ambivalence toward slavery.
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:58 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
You're simply wrong. The civil war was fought over economic, power, and control issues built up over the years between the federal government and the southern states. If the south was successful in its bid to separate and form its own independent country, the economy of the remaining states would have suffered, western expansion would have severely faltered, and the viability of the central government authority going forward would be in jeopardy. The war wasn't fought over the moral question of the slavery of Africans. The president himself stated clearly his ambivalence toward slavery.
By today's standards, Abraham Lincoln would be considered a white supremacist by his own words. That's what bothers me about tearing down monuments. You can make the case for the Lincoln Memorial too.
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
...You can make the case for the Lincoln Memorial too.
You're exactly correct! I've believed this has been the intent all along. The banning of flags and tearing down of monuments won't stop with the Confederate symbols.
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