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Old 05-15-2017, 08:52 PM
 
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Similar to what is happening in New Orleans is about to happen in St. Louis with the removal of the Confederate memorial monument. It's sat there for almost 100 years without a problem and all of a sudden about a year ago someone gets the idea to remove it. Just like back in 2002 the removal of the Confederate flags at the state historic sites. They flew there for years without any issues until One Term Bob took them down.

When will this stop? Hell here in Florida there are not many traces of the old Confederacy left. All across the south and border states they're being removed.

Mayor's office exploring avenues to remove Confederate monument | KSDK.com
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:48 AM
 
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The American ISIS is sanitizing history.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:16 PM
 
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If people like the confederate flag and other memorabilia, wear it and wear it with pride.

It doesn't need to be in a public funded park with tax payers money.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
If people like the confederate flag and other memorabilia, wear it and wear it with pride.

It doesn't need to be in a public funded park with tax payers money.
It's part of history though and a part of Missouri history as well. Upwards of 60,000 Missourians served in the Confederate army and the Missouri State Guard before it morphed with the regular Confederate army.

Why is it okay to have American flags fly at union cemeteries but not the Confederate ones then? Then at the state historic sights remove the American Flags too and just fly the Missouri state flag then. That way make it equal to both sides then. If it's state funded, just fly the MO state flag then.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:52 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Because we don't memorialize the flag of any other country with which we've waged war.

I personally don't care if it stays. It doesn't affect me.

However, some elements of the Confederate message are not admirable in modern times. You don't see Germans memorializing the Third Reich.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
If it's state funded, just fly the MO state flag then.
That's ridiculous. Most state flags are essentially meaningless, being created long after the war. We fly the American flag because, surprise, we are all Americans.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:08 PM
 
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Why is the flag of our country held in higher esteem than the flag of a bunch of slave-owning traitors I just don't get it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:34 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
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I don't have an issue with them removing it as long as it ends up in a Museum (which is what is happening with the ones in NOLA I think).

It is an aspect of history worthy of a museum, but not suitable for a public park, imho.

Germany has removed most traces of the National Socialist/Nazi regime with the exception of within museums, and rightly so. Same applies in this circumstance.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:36 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil View Post
You don't see Germans memorializing the Third Reich.
.
I should have read all of the comments before posting. Precisely my thoughts.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:25 PM
 
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we are getting to be like communist countries. I recently took a college history course and it is full of lies. We are sanitizing history.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:49 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glamatomic View Post
I don't have an issue with them removing it as long as it ends up in a Museum (which is what is happening with the ones in NOLA I think).

It is an aspect of history worthy of a museum, but not suitable for a public park, imho.

Germany has removed most traces of the National Socialist/Nazi regime with the exception of within museums, and rightly so. Same applies in this circumstance.
I'm not a southerner, a descendant of confederates or the like. In fact, my peeps fought and some died for the North. Exclusively. I know this for a fact.

However, I think these confederate- Nazi comparisons are off base. Yes, slavery was abhorrent. However, it was widely practiced in the world when America was founded and it was accepted at the time of the founding and for many years afterwards. The southerners who owned slaves, and obviously not all did, were Americans, including many founding Americans.

The Nazi's were a political party who politically took over an entire country, and then built up their military and started a world war bent on conquest of other countries and ultimately genocide of entire groups of people. The south didn't do that - they weren't built on conquest of other territories or countries. Slavery certainly was terrible, a type of genocide, but again, it was widely still being practiced outside of the US. The Nazis were unique in their plans for outward conquest and ethnic cleansing of undesirables.
In fact, if this is accurate, the number of slaves brought to the US was dwarfed by the numbers that were brought to Brazil and other countries of the "new world":

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I am not saying it makes it right, because it doesn't, but there are stark differences in my view between the south up to and during the civil war and Nazi Germany.

And when the war was over, the southerners who survived remained Americans and helped build this country into a world power, and their descendants fought and died in our many wars since, including against the Nazis. They weren't tried by the north for war crimes, like most of the top Nazis.

Again, slavery was abhorrent. But we fought a civil war over that and other issues at the time. When the war was over, the south and its citizens and its surviving soldiers remained American citizens.

To conclude, I don't like this erasing of US history based on current moods or sensibilities. It's a slippery slope and you don't know what will be offensive to people in years to come. Some people, apparently an increasing number, are offended by the US flag because it represents American imperialism, mistreatment of native peoples, jim crow, whatever. You can google stories about high school kids being told not to wear shirts or hats to school with American flags on them because other students find them offensive. Are world war II memorials next because we interned the Japanese, dropped the atom bomb, were a largely segregated country at the time, and for the most part relegated black servicemen to more menial jobs? Is the Viet Nam memorial safe because it was an unpopular and, in the eyes of many, unnecessary war? Where does it end? Who gets to decide?

Last edited by MUTGR; 05-19-2017 at 11:08 PM..
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